Have the Rules Changed?

[Itchy Trigger]

17 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Well if you want to focus on the Cease Fire command...we can do that.

 

The only two examples I can think of are "Cease Fire" and "Squib."

I don't realistically see calling the 170-degree rule like you indicated in a previous post, that should be left to the TO.

 

At a recent event, there was a squib that neither the shooter nor the TO noticed. A "Spotter" (I think) yelled squib which stopped the action. But I don't see how it "should" matter if the "Spotter" did, the "Score Keeper" did, or another shooter that just happened to be the only one paying attention.

 

The rules seem to be "fairly clear" that ALL SHOOTERS are "Safety Officers" and are supposed to say something when they see an unsafe condition, but also that a reshoot is only valid if a "Range Officer" is the one that said something.

 

I agree 100% with you on the coaching aspect. That should be left up to the TO's discretion, and then only if the shooter wants it.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

12 minutes ago, Itchy Trigger said:

 

The only two examples I can think of are "Cease Fire" and "Squib." or...Hammer, Hull...few others. Though I don't really consider them true safety issues but rather procedural violations...but that too is for another debate.

I don't realistically see calling the 170-degree rule like you indicated in a previous post, that should be left to the TO. More times then not the 170 is called by someone other than the TO as "they" often have a better vantage point to see the violation.

 

At a recent event, there was a squib that neither the shooter nor the TO noticed. A "Spotter" (I think) yelled squib which stopped the action. But I don't see how it "should" matter if the "Spotter" did, the "Score Keeper" did, or another shooter that just happened to be the only one paying attention. It matters because our competition can be thrown into a crazed frenzy of instructions coming from all over the place. As an example, some ranges have their stages crammed into small areas. A person can yell out "Squib" and multiple shooters might stop...who me??? 

 

The rules seem to be "fairly clear" that ALL SHOOTERS are "Safety Officers" and are supposed to say something when they see an unsafe condition, but also that a reshoot is only valid if a "Range Officer" is the one that said something. First off, the term "Fairly Clear" is not a good benchmark. Now...back to "Range Officer"...please see my comments above.

 

I agree 100% with you on the coaching aspect. That should be left up to the TO's discretion, and then only if the shooter wants it. This is not my position. My position is that all coaching be removed from the game. Only time the TO interfaces with a shooting during the running of a stage is when there is a safety issue. And I do not define safety issue to include a spent hull in a chamber...etc, etc.

 

[Tennessee williams]

 

 

[Flying W Ramrod]

19 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

Agreed!

It obviously is in need of further clarification.

I like PWB's term Line RO's. It lets everyone know who should, and can, make comments/calls on the Line. Hope PWB gets this into the Documents.

[Itchy Trigger]

51 minutes ago, Flying W Ramrod said:

I like PWB's term Line RO's. It lets everyone know who should, and can, make comments/calls on the Line. Hope PWB gets this into the Documents.

 

If so, we would also need to remove the portion of the rules that all participants are safety officers and clarify that not only are they not obligated, but that they are also not supposed to comment when a safety issue becomes apparent and leave it all to the RO's.

 

Comments should be left to the TO, hits should be left to the spotters, and scoring to the scorekeeper.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

1 hour ago, Itchy Trigger said:

 

If so, we would also need to remove the portion of the rules that all participants are safety officers and clarify that not only are they not obligated, but that they are also not supposed to comment when a safety issue becomes apparent and leave it all to the RO's.

 

Comments should be left to the TO, hits should be left to the spotters, and scoring to the scorekeeper.

 

It appears that some respondents are confusing RANGE SAFETY COMMANDS with COACHING (which was the initial subject of the OP).

 

REF also:

Quote

“RED FLAG” means “CEASE FIRE!” All shooting must IMMEDIATELY stop, all firearms must be laid down or otherwise made safe. Once the Cease Fire condition is resolved, an “ALL CLEAR” command is given, the Red Flags are withdrawn, and normal range operations are resumed.

*Any shooter stopped while shooting a stage is given a reshoot.

RO1 p.24

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Itchy Trigger said:

 

If so, we would also need to remove the portion of the rules that all participants are safety officers and clarify that not only are they not obligated, but that they are also not supposed to comment when a safety issue becomes apparent and leave it all to the RO's.

 

Comments should be left to the TO, hits should be left to the spotters, and scoring to the scorekeeper.

I think you would benefit from talking to your TG at Plum Creek...

 

Also, what is a Texas SASS Team Director??

 

Phantom

[Griff]

1 hour ago, Itchy Trigger said:

If so, we would also need to remove the portion of the rules that all participants are safety officers and clarify that not only are they not obligated, but that they are also not supposed to comment when a safety issue becomes apparent and leave it all to the RO's.

 

Comments should be left to the TO, hits should be left to the spotters, and scoring to the scorekeeper.

33 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

It appears that some respondents are confusing RANGE SAFETY COMMANDS with COACHING (which was the initial subject of the OP).

 

REF also:

“RED FLAG” means “CEASE FIRE!”
All shooting must IMMEDIATELY stop, all firearms must be laid down or otherwise made safe.
Once the Cease Fire condition is resolved, an “ALL CLEAR” command is given, the Red Flags are withdrawn, and normal range operations are resumed.
*Any shooter stopped while shooting a stage is given a reshoot.

RO1 p.24

And, as a practical matter, nearly always requires someone other than a "Line RO" to notice and pass the information along to the CRO!  As a TO or spotter, I'm looking downrange and don't really pay close attention to what's happening elsewhere on the range.  Guess no one else has had to interrupt a match due to a tornado!  I've shot in the 100+º Texas and CA desert sun; during a snowstorm; during rain & thunderstorms... but that day got to me!

[Flying W Ramrod]

2 hours ago, Itchy Trigger said:

 

If so, we would also need to remove the portion of the rules that all participants are safety officers and clarify that not only are they not obligated, but that they are also not supposed to comment when a safety issue becomes apparent and leave it all to the RO's.

 

Comments should be left to the TO, hits should be left to the spotters, and scoring to the scorekeeper.

Please note ROI Page 16 "Range Safety Rules - Everyone is a safety officer; however, it is the ultimate responsibility of the Range Officers to ensure the safety rules are consistently followed."

It is already stated that the responsibility is the purview of the Range Officers. Those are listed in the SHB and ROI Manual.