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cocking pistols


Capt. Rosecrans
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Read the rules, they are very clear.

 

  • Duelist  Duelist style is defined as shooting a revolver cocked and fired one- handed and unsupported. The revolver, hand, or shooting arm may not be touched by the offhand except when resolving a malfunctioning revolver problem or when transferring the revolver from one hand to the other.

 

If you have to do that you are in the wrong category.

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Transfering a cocked, loaded  pistol between hands any time, especially under the clock is a seriously dangerous procedure.  I don't have the SHB handy to quote directly, Doesn't it specifically prohibit a cocked pistol ever leaving the shooter's hand, including from one hand to the other (except if passing a defective gun to a range officer or grounding it under range officer supervision? )   

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale
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Larsen's answer was concise and on point.    

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18 hours ago, Capt. Rosecrans said:

sorry to confuse you experts, no gun transfer mentioned, I was looking for a workaround after multiple hand surgeries have left my strong hand thumb not working as well as I had hoped

 

I’m having problems cocking with my right thumb, I’ve gone to two handed shooting, cocking with my off hand like 70% of the shooters do. If you’re going to cock with your off hand why would you shoot duelist? Just go two handed! 

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If you are shooting in an age-based category, where any shooting style except Gunfighter is allowed, can you start with both hands on the gun Traditionalist style, cock the gun with off hand, then release that hand and shoot one handed.  Then grip gun with both hands again to cock for next shot.  Since the gun never leaves the strong hand, I would think that a loaded gun isn't considered being transferred from one hand to the other, since it was always in the strong hand.

 

I'm not arguing one way or the other, just wanting to know the official ruling on this scenario, since it isn't exactly what was covered in earlier responses.

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20 minutes ago, Diamond Jake said:

If you are shooting in an age-based category, where any shooting style except Gunfighter is allowed, can you start with both hands on the gun Traditionalist style, cock the gun with off hand, then release that hand and shoot one handed.  Then grip gun with both hands again to cock for next shot.  Since the gun never leaves the strong hand, I would think that a loaded gun isn't considered being transferred from one hand to the other, since it was always in the strong hand.

 

I'm not arguing one way or the other, just wanting to know the official ruling on this scenario, since it isn't exactly what was covered in earlier responses.

 

YES.

It wasn't covered because the OP was asking about doing that in a category in which "Duelist-style" is required;)

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learn to shoot with your off hand... every now and again. i'll shoot double duelist when there is an advantage to doing so. usually when the pistols are last, it saves me time on the draw

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/30/2022 at 2:07 AM, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

YES.

It wasn't covered because the OP was asking about doing that in a category in which "Duelist-style" is required;)

Wait... Does that mean your first pistol shot in a stage could technically be a QuickDraw fan, with the 4 subsequent shots being regular duelist? 

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2 hours ago, JackSlade said:

Wait... Does that mean your first pistol shot in a stage could technically be a QuickDraw fan, with the 4 subsequent shots being regular duelist?

 

NO.

Quote

Cowboy Action Shooting is NOT a fast-draw competition. Any unsafe handling in the course of a draw from the holster or any “fanning” to shoot a revolver is strictly forbidden. Slip-hammering is not the same as fanning and is legal.

SHB p.14

 

Penalty is a SDQ.

REF: SHB p.22

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On 8/29/2022 at 6:09 PM, Boomstick Bruce said:

learn to shoot with your off hand...

 

100%. It's more funner having this skill.

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2 hours ago, Dantankerous said:

 

100%. It's more funner having this skill.

Oh it's definitely more funner trying to shoot with my off hand and the posse laughs harder at me when I do it too!  :lol:

 

Kajun (what is trying to learn to shoot GF)

 

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Howdy Cowboys,

 

Let's face it, shooting Duelist or Classic Cowboy is cooler and way more authentic (esp. based on Western movies) than the two-handed, gangster style that is currently more prevalent. Of course with the "maturing" of our members, various infirmities frequently mandate the two handed technique. I'm sure that in the old days the old timers with similar conditions would occasionally use both hands for the same reason that we do today. 

 

All of that being said, Shooting a sixgun one-handed is still the coolest way to go. However, I'm still glad that we can accommodate any shooter who wants to join the most enjoyable and picturesque shooting sport available.

 

Rev. Chase

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..."two-handed, gangster style that is currently more prevalent."  :rolleyes:

??

First time I've ever heard that term used for what SASS defines as "Traditional" (SHB p.45:lol:

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1 hour ago, Reverend P. Babcock Chase said:

Howdy Cowboys,

Let's face it, shooting Duelist or Classic Cowboy is cooler and way more authentic (esp. based on Western movies) than the two-handed, gangster style that is currently more prevalent. Of course with the "maturing" of our members, various infirmities frequently mandate the two handed technique. I'm sure that in the old days the old timers with similar conditions would occasionally use both hands for the same reason that we do today. 

All of that being said, Shooting a sixgun one-handed is still the coolest way to go. However, I'm still glad that we can accommodate any shooter who wants to join the most enjoyable and picturesque shooting sport available.

Rev. Chase

Two-handed shooters have ALWAYS outnumbered those that shoot in a one-handed category.  And long before you were involved with cowboy action shooting, it was the ONLY acknowledged style.  I find your categorization of it as "gangster-style" insulting and judgemental.  Especially since it is the standard method taught in law-enforcement academies across the country, if not around the world.  Hopefully, you'll be able to mature enough to shoot two-handed also.  

 

11 minutes ago, Reverend P. Babcock Chase said:

Whoops, maybe I should have said "Cagney and Lacey" style.

Rev. Chase

How about just leaving it at "two-handed".

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2 hours ago, Griff said:

Two-handed shooters have ALWAYS outnumbered those that shoot in a one-handed category.  And long before you were involved with cowboy action shooting, it was the ONLY acknowledged style.  I find your categorization of it as "gangster-style" insulting and judgemental.  Especially since it is the standard method taught in law-enforcement academies across the country, if not around the world.  Hopefully, you'll be able to mature enough to shoot two-handed also.  

 

How about just leaving it at "two-handed".

Well look who's being insulting and judgemental! I have been Cowboy Action shooting with one hand ( Duelist style)for 27 years never judged anyone for shooting with two hands and I think  to say  I'm immature because I don't shoot with two hands is B.S.! V.D.

Edited by Von Dutch, SASS # 7995
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Howdy Griff,

 

My comments were unquestionably judgmental; however, they were not meant to be insulting. While it's true that today's law enforcement and combat training mandates the two handed hold, when I shoot more modern courses of fire with autoloaders I typically use the two handed hold (except Wild Bunch). Now, Cowboy Action Shooting to me should be shot like the pistoleers of the late 1800's (also my western movie heroes) would have done it. That's why I shoot Classic Cowboy or Duelist. Given the vast number of shooters who were trained in the two handed style, it is no surprise that that is the predominant style we see today. If I insulted any shooters who use the two handed style, it was not my intention.

 

By the way, when at the loading table with my Schofields, I use a pair of speed loaders.

 

Rev. Chase

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38 minutes ago, Reverend P. Babcock Chase said:

Now, Cowboy Action Shooting to me should be shot like the pistoleers of the late 1800's (also my western movie heroes) would have done it. That's why I shoot Classic Cowboy or Duelist.

 

So, is it safe to assume that you always use black powder, too?

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58 minutes ago, Von Dutch, SASS # 7995 said:

Well look who's being insulting and judgemental! I have been Cowboy Action shooting with one hand ( Duelist style)for 27 years never judged anyone for shooting with two hands and I think  to say  I'm immature because I don't shoot with two hands is B.S.! V.D.

Did I quote anything you said?  No.   Were my comments directed at you?  No.  I apologize if you took them as such.  I quoted one individual for a specific comment or two.  And the "mature" reference was in reply to his inference about the increasing age of our participants and implied increasing frailty, to whit, an inability to shoot one-handed.  If I'd wanted to be insulting, I'd have harped on the flagrant use of "suppository" cartridges amongst the vast majority of shooters!  

 

Reverend,  apology accepted.  I'd hoped that was the gist of what you trying to say.  

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Griff said:

Did I quote anything you said?  No.   Were my comments directed at you?  No.  I apologize if you took them as such.  I quoted one individual for a specific comment or two.  And the "mature" reference was in reply to his inference about the increasing age of our participants and implied increasing frailty, to whit, an inability to shoot one-handed.  If I'd wanted to be insulting, I'd have harped on the flagrant use of "suppository" cartridges amongst the vast majority of shooters!  

 

Reverend,  apology accepted.  I'd hoped that was the gist of what you trying to say.  

 

 

I accept your apology! and I apologize for taking it the wrong way! Happy Trails V.D.

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1 hour ago, Reverend P. Babcock Chase said:

ps. thanks Von Dutch. I admire you pinstripe work

 

Rev, Chase

Funny you say that! I used to custom paint Class 8 trucks in the old days, I had a CB in the shop back then and my trucker friends gave me the handle Von Dutch being my real first name is Von and I knew the real Von Dutch, Watching him custom paint funny cars was something else! V.D.

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2 hours ago, Reverend P. Babcock Chase said:

Howdy Griff,

 

My comments were unquestionably judgmental; however, they were not meant to be insulting. While it's true that today's law enforcement and combat training mandates the two handed hold, when I shoot more modern courses of fire with autoloaders I typically use the two handed hold (except Wild Bunch). Now, Cowboy Action Shooting to me should be shot like the pistoleers of the late 1800's (also my western movie heroes) would have done it. That's why I shoot Classic Cowboy or Duelist. Given the vast number of shooters who were trained in the two handed style, it is no surprise that that is the predominant style we see today. If I insulted any shooters who use the two handed style, it was not my intention.

 

By the way, when at the loading table with my Schofields, I use a pair of speed loaders.

 

Rev. Chase

Wow,  now isn't that what's great about SASS? You can play the game the way you like and others can play as they do. You're opinion of cowboy action shooting being shot like the pistoleers of the 1800s would have? It is just that......your opinion. It started 2 handed. Most shoot 2 handed. I shoot 13 second stages should I be judgemental of those who shoot 60 second stages?? No!! You play your game and have a blast, but you shouldn't judge others for what they enjoy. 

 

Also, Like someone else mentioned already,  If you shot to be like the 1880s pistoleers then you must definitely only be shooting true black powder, correct??

 

JEL

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13 hours ago, John E. Law said:

Wow,  now isn't that what's great about SASS? You can play the game the way you like and others can play as they do. You're opinion of cowboy action shooting being shot like the pistoleers of the 1800s would have? It is just that......your opinion. It started 2 handed. Most shoot 2 handed. I shoot 13 second stages should I be judgemental of those who shoot 60 second stages?? No!! You play your game and have a blast, but you shouldn't judge others for what they enjoy. 

 

Also, Like someone else mentioned already,  If you shot to be like the 1880s pistoleers then you must definitely only be shooting true black powder, correct??

 

JEL

This feud has been going on since I started CAS. On one side the ‘fast shooters,’ sometimes referred to as ‘gamers.’  On the other side the ‘purists,’ sometimes referred to as party poopers.

 

The fast shooters want to shoot fast and don’t much care what the purists are doing. The purists look down their noses at the ‘squaw gripping gamers’ and pine for the day when we can set aside the timers and just make lots of noise and smoke, but do it really slowly without a care in the world about winning, just like the old days.

 

The purists will never admit it, but deep down beneath their judgement and condemnation of the fast shooters is a kernel of….jealousy, pure and simple.

 

Not all fast shooters are gamers, and not all slower shooters are purists, so just because you’re ‘only in it to have fun’ (hate that saying) doesn’t mean you’re a purist raining on everyone else’s parade.

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Howdy Capt. Bill,

 

I must respectfully disagree. I guess I can be considered a "purist". I can honestly say I have no jealousy for the two handed shooters speed. I do marvel at the blindingly fast shooting of the top tier shooters. Watching a rainbow of shells arc out of a rifle is captivating. If I were to admit being jealous of any shooter's performance it would be the top duelists and anybody who can run an '87 flawlessly. In any event, we really have to compete against ourselves if we want to improve. I would point out that practicing might help us improve, but I wouldn't know about that.

 

Rev. Chase

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31 minutes ago, Reverend P. Babcock Chase said:

Howdy Capt. Bill,

 

I must respectfully disagree. I guess I can be considered a "purist". I can honestly say I have no jealousy for the two handed shooters speed. I do marvel at the blindingly fast shooting of the top tier shooters. Watching a rainbow of shells arc out of a rifle is captivating. If I were to admit being jealous of any shooter's performance it would be the top duelists and anybody who can run an '87 flawlessly. In any event, we really have to compete against ourselves if we want to improve. I would point out that practicing might help us improve, but I wouldn't know about that.

 

Rev. Chase

I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing.  As I stated, not all slower shooters are purists.  But I do think that those who are 'only in it for fun' and who profess disdain for faster shooters and the gaming they do to be more competitive are secretly jealous to some extent. 

 

I have no issues with the 'just for fun' crowd other than when they advocate changes to the game that would adversely impact how I choose to play.

 

For example, in you statement below. If you were to say "Cowboy Action Shooting for me is shooting like the pistoleers....." I would say, have at it and enjoy.

 

When someone says "Cowboy Action TO me SHOULD be shot....." then I interpret that as that person not supporting my chosen way of shooting and I take exception.  

 

In my limited time with CAS I've never heard a 'gamer' criticize another shooter for being too slow, or using too much black powder.  Typically there's room for all under the gamer tent.  

 

OTH, I've often heard comments from the 'just for fun' crowd wishing that the gamers approach would be eliminated or implying that it should be viewed as in some way illegitimate, or not 'cowboy.'

 

Just the view from my saddle and worth what you paid for it probably.

22 hours ago, Reverend P. Babcock Chase said:

Howdy Griff,

 

My comments were unquestionably judgmental; however, they were not meant to be insulting. While it's true that today's law enforcement and combat training mandates the two handed hold, when I shoot more modern courses of fire with autoloaders I typically use the two handed hold (except Wild Bunch). Now, Cowboy Action Shooting to me should be shot like the pistoleers of the late 1800's (also my western movie heroes) would have done it. That's why I shoot Classic Cowboy or Duelist. Given the vast number of shooters who were trained in the two handed style, it is no surprise that that is the predominant style we see today. If I insulted any shooters who use the two handed style, it was not my intention.

 

By the way, when at the loading table with my Schofields, I use a pair of speed loaders.

 

Rev. Chase

 

Edited by Captain Bill Burt
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Adding to Capt BB's post, I have numerous times heard AND READ on this forum, that the speed demons are ruining 

SASS..... "Their hurting the game".

 

So what's a person to think when their chosen style of shooting is demonized by others?

 

And why has one of my firearms been inspected a few times, when no one else firearms are inspected?

 

..........Widder

 

Edited by Widder, SASS #59054
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