CA to stop selling gas-powered cars by 2035

[Subdeacon Joe]

4 minutes ago, Slapshot said:

So where are you getting your so called facts on average commute? You honestly believe everyone lives within 20 miles of there job? Not everyone lives inside the cities and there are a huge amount of people that live in rural areas with over 40 mile commutes. 

Light and a tv, lol, yeah right. I really love listening to your Cali attitude. Its really easy to see why Cali is in the shape it is in.

 

I googled it and checked half a dozen sites.  Not everyone lives 5oo miles from the nearest town.  Yes, I know YOU have a commute of 250 miles each way, that doesn't mean everyone does.  You might want to look up what "average" means.  

[Subdeacon Joe]

4 minutes ago, Slapshot said:

I don't think you understand what a long commute is. 

 

 

I used to commute about 70 miles each way and then do another 250 miles of driving for work.  Long enough for you? Also for about a year and a half I commuted over the Mayacamas range from Clearlake Oaks to Santa Rosa, 60 mile and an hour and a half each way.  Again, long enough for you?

I've also had commutes of two miles.  

 

I know, you have a 250 mile commute each way.  Uphill.  In the snow.  Towing 20,000 pounds.

[Slapshot]

11 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

I googled it and checked half a dozen sites.  Not everyone lives 5oo miles from the nearest town.  Yes, I know YOU have a commute of 250 miles each way, that doesn't mean everyone does.  You might want to look up what "average" means.  

No more than half the people where I live have at least a 28-38 mile trip to work. And I didn't google it I know from when I was laid off and had to drive to the next town to find work. Small rural towns in Ms don't offer allot of employment opportunities. 

 

But God yes lets trust Google cause if Google says its so its the liberal truth of the matter right?

[Slapshot]

5 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

 

I used to commute about 70 miles each way and then do another 250 miles of driving for work.  Long enough for you? Also for about a year and a half I commuted over the Mayacamas range from Clearlake Oaks to Santa Rosa, 60 mile and an hour and a half each way.  Again, long enough for you?

I've also had commutes of two miles.  

 

I know, you have a 250 mile commute each way.  Uphill.  In the snow.  Towing 20,000 pounds.

Love to see that EV make those trips ever day. That would be like burning a big flood light and a 75" tv over night right?

 

And while I do commute 250 miles one way. Ms to La coast to work offshore, there is no snow and I don't tow a trailer. If I did have to I'd need one of those magical Cali EV's with that sweet charge rate and that average commute you Googled, LOL.

[Subdeacon Joe]

50 minutes ago, Slapshot said:

And while I do commute 250 miles one way

 

And you do that every day.

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

Y’all are plumb spoiled.   

 

Lemme tell ya ‘bout MY daily commute (before I came to my senses!)

 

I lived in Vallejo and worked in San Francisco.  About 31 miles or so door-to-door… and my total commute was up to 5 ½ hours a day.

 

I had options – driving, driving/train, or ferry/trains.

 

Driving – if I was on the road before 0600, it was about 45 minutes with normal traffic.  If o’t on the road before 0600, the drive into the city was miserable – I’d get to my office about 0800 – 0830.  Plus had to deal with bridge tolls, and parking in a lot with tiny spaces.  And for the return trip, well… since I usually wouldn’t get out of the office ‘til 1830 or later, I’d miss most of the commute traffic.  Usually.  But I’d have to go north across the Golden Gate Bridge, from San Franciso through Marin and Sonoma Counties to Solano County.  Fifty some miles.  But at least an hour and a half. 

Total time: two ¼ - 3 hours.

 

Driving/train – Drive to Concord – ½ hour plus.  BART train to San Francisco, then four block walk to office (or take the underground MUNI if too rainy).  About another hour.  In winter and spring fog could be a major issue. 

Total time: About three hours in decent weather.

 

- Ferry/trains – easiest on the nerves (sorta) but miserable:

- Leave the house by 0530 and drive to Vallejo ferry terminal.

- Depart ferry terminal 0600 – arrive SF ferry terminal 0700

- Walk to MUNI station, catch underground train, arrive at office about 0750.

 

Easy-peasy.  But not so the return trip; there was only one boat back to Vallejo ~ departed at 1730.  No way… I usually didn’t get out of the office until much later.  So…

 

- MUNI underground train to BART station.

- Transfer to East Bay bound train.

- Oakland West station, transfer to an El Cerrito Del Norte train.

- El Cerrito, catch a bus to Vallejo Greyhound Station.

- Greyhound Station, catch a city bus to ferry terminal.

- Recover vehicle and drive home.

Total time: Over 5 ½ hours if all went well.

 

This was in addition to minimum 10 hour work days (plus weekends).  No wonder I ended up in the cardiac ward before I was 40!  (That was the year three of my colleagues died... I got off easy! ) 

[Subdeacon Joe]

Found via GOOGLE.   

[Rip Snorter]

1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Yes, there are chargers in Billings.  

So what! How much would that have extended my trip times.  Irrelevant since hell will freeze before I buy an electric car.  Kinda like all the multiple vacs and plague I never got. 

[Slapshot]

4 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

And you do that every day.

No Sir never said that. I work a 3 week on 3 week off rotation. Either way a EV won't work for me. Not to mention the US power grid will never handle every family owning one. Or not for my life time or yours.

[Slapshot]

3 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Found via GOOGLE.   

I seriously would take that with a grain of salt. As even in cities you would be lucky to drive less than 5 miles. Polls and surveys can be made to say what ever you won't them to depending on who you poll and survey. It also depends on location also. Love for that to be made in Ms, Louisiana, Alabama areas. You would see a hell of allot different results. Or any heavily rural area.

 

Quick Google check. Amazing how it differs from yours.

 

How many miles is the average commute to work?

 

 

What is the National Average Commute to Work? The U.S. Census Bureau reports the average one-way travel time to work in 2019 was 27.6 minutes, up from 25 minutes in 2006. Federal Highway Administration data from 2019 indicates motorists in the U.S. drive an average of 39 miles per day.Sep 22, 2021

 

How many miles does the average person commute?

 

 

According to data analyzed by Jerry, the average round trip to and from work in the U.S. is over 41 miles a day. The health effects of commuting are serious, but there are strategies to reduce their impact.Nov 20, 2021

 

What is a normal daily commute?

 

 

 

 

What is the average commute to work like in the USA? The national average commute time in the U.S. is 26.6 minutes, according to the Census Bureau. That means as a whole, the daily average American commute time is just under an hour, 53.2 minutes, assuming one round trip.

 

 

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

Okay now the post turns to commuting distances 

15 pages I now predict!!

[Buckshot Bob]

I remember when I first moved to CA in the 80’s and the people from the Bay Area and LA would tell me what it took to get back and fort to work . 2 1/2 hours was not uncommon, and often they weren’t traveling that great of a distance, it’s just that congested. It’s something I’m simply not willing to do and never did. I know I sacrificed some income over my lifetime because of it. Every time I went to Houston for a class the teachers would try to recruit me and other students, and the pay rate was always very attractive, but living in a large city just isn’t my gig. And by the time you figured in the cost of living increase it just made it that much less attractive to me. My family’s hunting property is a 2hr drive from where I live and I’ve often questioned if that’s worth it. But I guess I’m a home body, some people just like to be on the road and the things a large city has to offer. And more power to them, the more people stay in the cities the more open spaces I get to enjoy. 

[Subdeacon Joe]

Even some environmentalists don't like California

 

http://www.ktmoradio.com/2022/09/07/environmental-activist-warns-of-dire-electricity-crisis-in-california-incompetence-piled-on-ideology/

[Yul Lose]

[Subdeacon Joe]

On 9/7/2022 at 10:39 PM, Slapshot said:

No Sir never said that. I work a 3 week on 3 week off rotation. Either way a EV won't work for me. Not to mention the US power grid will never handle every family owning one. Or not for my life time or yours.

 

 

Right.  I could probably find people who commute 2,000 miles but only do it twice a year. 

The point is that MOST people commute FIVE days a week.  Cherry pick all you like, but MOST people don't have jobs like yours.   Heck, I'm surprised that you didn't throw in the the distance offshore into your commute.  Take your 500 mile round trip and divide it by 15 days and what is your AVERAGE DAILY COMMUTE based on the standard American 5 day work week?  
 

[Subdeacon Joe]

On 9/7/2022 at 10:43 PM, Slapshot said:

That means as a whole, the daily average American commute time is just under an hour, 53.2 minutes, assuming one round trip.

 

 

That's pretty close on time for my 26 mile round trip.

 

On 9/7/2022 at 10:43 PM, Slapshot said:

I seriously would take that with a grain of salt.

 

 

"Yeah, but wuddabout...yeah, but whaddabout, yeah but whaddabout..."
Basically you are arguing that because there are a 2 fliers outside the group of 98 in the 10 ring the gun isn't accurate and is a piece of junk.


https://newsroom.aaa.com/2015/04/new-study-reveals-much-motorists-drive/

 

Quote

WASHINGTON, D.C., (April 16, 2015) – On average, Americans drive 29.2 miles per day, making two trips with an average total duration of 46 minutes. This and other revealing data are the results of a groundbreaking study currently underway by the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety and the Urban Institute.

The Foundation’s new American Driving Survey offers the most up-to-date, comprehensive look at how much Americans drive on a daily and yearly basis.  First-year data, collected May 2013 through May 2014, is available now from the ongoing study, which will set the benchmark for future data and ultimately reveal trends in Americans’ driving habits.

“This is the first ongoing study that provides a look at when and how much Americans are driving,” said Peter Kissinger, President and CEO of the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety. “Existing federal data with this level of detail was last released in 2009, eight years after the previous release. This substantially limits the extent to which we can use existing data to draw conclusions about Americans’ current driving habits.”

The first-year results of the American Driving Survey revealed that:

• Motorists age 16 years and older drive, on average, 29.2 miles per day or 10,658 miles per year.
• Women take more driving trips, but men spend 25 percent more time behind the wheel and drive 35 percent more miles than women.
• Both teenagers and seniors over the age of 75 drive less than any other age group; motorists 30-49 years old drive an average 13,140 miles annually, more than any other age group.
• The average distance and time spent driving increase in relation to higher levels of education. A driver with a grade school or some high school education drove an average of 19.9 miles and 32 minutes daily, while a college graduate drove an average of 37.2 miles and 58 minutes.
• Drivers who reported living “in the country” or “a small town” drive greater distances (12,264 miles annually) and spend a greater amount of time driving than people who described living in a “medium sized town” or city (9,709 miles annually).
• Motorists in the South drive the most (11,826 miles annually), while those in the Northeast drive the least (8,468 miles annually).
• On average, Americans drive fewer miles on the weekend than on weekdays.
• Americans drive, on average, the least during winter months (January through March) at 25.7 miles daily; they drive the most during the summer months (July through September) at 30.6 miles daily.

“This new data, when combined with available crash data, will allow us to conduct unique, timely studies on crash rates for the first time,” continued Kissinger. “This will allow us to identify specific problems and evaluate various safety countermeasures to a degree never before possible.”

Results from the American Driver Survey were based on telephone interviews with a nationwide sample of 3,319 drivers who reported detailed information about all their driving trips taken the day before the interview. Data collection is ongoing; the information reported in the first-year results was collected between May 21, 2013 and May 31, 2014. The full results from the inaugural American Driving Survey are available online at www.aaafoundation.org.

Established by AAA in 1947, the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety is a 501(c) (3) not-for-profit, publicly supported charitable educational and research organization.  Dedicated to saving lives and reducing injuries on our roads, the Foundation’s mission is to prevent crashes and save lives through education about traffic safety. The Foundation has funded more than 200 research projects designed to discover the causes of traffic crashes, prevent them, and minimize injuries when they do occur. Visit www.aaafoundation.org for more information on this and other research.

As North America’s largest motoring and leisure travel organization, AAA provides more than 55 million members with travel, insurance, financial and automotive-related services. Since its founding in 1902, the not-for-profit, fully tax-paying AAA has been a leader and advocate for the safety and security of all travelers. AAA clubs can be visited on the internet at AAA.com.

 

Even your Jerry doesn't have the AVERAGE (note that word, it is important) commute at 100 to 2oo miles that you seem to be claiming as the AVERAGE (note that word, it is important) commute distance.   And I'll take US Census Bureau and AAA over Jerry....who seems to have just manipulated the same data differently.  Here is the US DOT AVERAGE (note that word, it is important) Commute Times.  None of those AVERAGE (note that word, it is important) commute times line up with everyone driving 50 miles or more each way as you keep implying is the AVERAGE (note that word, it is important) for (peace-loving) American (peasants and) workers.  (sorry, I just had to throw those last two parenthetical comments in).

By the way, according to your Jerry:

California is known for ridiculous traffic that often lengthens travel times, but their commute time and distance are squarely in the middle of the pack out of the top five. Californian commuters have to travel an average of 46.88 miles a day for their commute.

WOW that is SO much more than the 40 miles a day I mentioned earlier!
Also from Jerry:
Finally, Washington, D.C., has the lowest distance but one of the highest commute times on this list. Though commuters in D.C. only cover an average of 32 miles per day 

 

Yep, again So much more then the 40 miles I mentioned.  
See also
https://www.streetlightdata.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Commutes-Across-America_180201.pdf

 

Nothing points to the AVERAGE commute being much more than 40 miles round trip.  The tables of commute time all argue for much shorter commute distances, unless from the time you pull out you are going 50mph or faster.

[Texas Joker]

For about 8 years I commuted 2.5 hours each way. 270 miles total. Commute Time vs Commute Distance.

 

When people asked how I could do it I pointed out 2.5 hours was nothing as long as I kept moving instead of stop and go 

[Slapshot]

3 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

 

Right.  I could probably find people who commute 2,000 miles but only do it twice a year. 

The point is that MOST people commute FIVE days a week.  Cherry pick all you like, but MOST people don't have jobs like yours.   Heck, I'm surprised that you didn't throw in the the distance offshore into your commute.  Take your 500 mile round trip and divide it by 15 days and what is your AVERAGE DAILY COMMUTE based on the standard American 5 day work week?  
 

Who's cherry picking? Personal experience when I was laid off and talking to my friends and people my boy and my nephew work with , my daughters husband ect. All commute longer than what you said. If anyone is cherry picking it would be you Sir to sell the ideal of EV's being the greatest thing next to ice cream. Hell the next town near me where you might find a job is over 28 miles away. And what about the other rural parts of the country? I guess you wouldn't know as you evidently live inside the city limits of your town/city.

[Slapshot]

2 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

 

That's pretty close on time for my 26 mile round trip.

 

 

 

"Yeah, but wuddabout...yeah, but whaddabout, yeah but whaddabout..."
Basically you are arguing that because there are a 2 fliers outside the group of 98 in the 10 ring the gun isn't accurate and is a piece of junk.


https://newsroom.aaa.com/2015/04/new-study-reveals-much-motorists-drive/

 

 

Even your Jerry doesn't have the AVERAGE (note that word, it is important) commute at 100 to 2oo miles that you seem to be claiming as the AVERAGE (note that word, it is important) commute distance.   And I'll take US Census Bureau and AAA over Jerry....who seems to have just manipulated the same data differently.  Here is the US DOT AVERAGE (note that word, it is important) Commute Times.  None of those AVERAGE (note that word, it is important) commute times line up with everyone driving 50 miles or more each way as you keep implying is the AVERAGE (note that word, it is important) for (peace-loving) American (peasants and) workers.  (sorry, I just had to throw those last two parenthetical comments in).

By the way, according to your Jerry:

California is known for ridiculous traffic that often lengthens travel times, but their commute time and distance are squarely in the middle of the pack out of the top five. Californian commuters have to travel an average of 46.88 miles a day for their commute.

WOW that is SO much more than the 40 miles a day I mentioned earlier!
Also from Jerry:
Finally, Washington, D.C., has the lowest distance but one of the highest commute times on this list. Though commuters in D.C. only cover an average of 32 miles per day 

 

Yep, again So much more then the 40 miles I mentioned.  
See also
https://www.streetlightdata.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Commutes-Across-America_180201.pdf

 

Nothing points to the AVERAGE commute being much more than 40 miles round trip.  The tables of commute time all argue for much shorter commute distances, unless from the time you pull out you are going 50mph or faster.

Oh for Goodness sake. You believe way to much propaganda and then spew it back out like its the gospel. I'll go ahead and be quite now and let you live in your little utopia world.

On 9/8/2022 at 9:43 AM, Subdeacon Joe said:

Even some environmentalists don't like California

 

http://www.ktmoradio.com/2022/09/07/environmental-activist-warns-of-dire-electricity-crisis-in-california-incompetence-piled-on-ideology/

[Rye Miles #13621]

A customer of mine moved here to Ohio from Portland. They drove their Tesla 3500 miles. He said a 4 or 5 hour charge gives him 350 miles. That’s plugged into a 220, in a 110 it would take 8 hours. So that’s means they had to stop at least 10 times and recharge. No thank you! 

[Buckshot Bob]

5 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

A custom mine moved here to Ohio from Portland. They drove their Tesla 3500 miles. He said a 4 or 5 hour charge gives him 350 miles. That’s plugged into a 220, in a 110 it would take 8 hours. So that’s means they had to stop at least 10 times and recharge. No thank you! 

When I lived in CA and wanted to travel back home to Mi I used to fly as often as I could because that cross country trip was a pia if you were taking it to get there asap. It’s a long haul made longer and more expensive if you are forced to take 4 and 8 hour stops, if there was two of you where you can rotate sleeping and driving it would really bite . Can’t tell you how many hunting trips I was on with buddies where the destination was about 24 hours away and the only thing we stopped for was gas. Black gold , Texas tea, mmm  

[bgavin]

I worked a CalTrans contract back when Schwarzenegger was governor.
Even though I could have done the job remote, they insisted on my being onsite.

I'd get up at 4am, and drive from Folsom down I80 to No. Concord to catch the BART train.
Get off at 19th in Oakland, work a full day, then catch the 24 Hour Fitness by the BART station.
Can't get on the train at that time, so I had a Subway sandwich, then caught the train to No. Concord.
Drove back to Folsom and into bed at 8pm.
Rinse and Repeat.

This was a 180 mile daily round trip.
CalTrans paid mileage and overtime for the drive.

This  grueling schedule went on for 3 months until the Gov decided to fire every contractor in CA, state wide.
I was more than happy to stop that crap.