CA to stop selling gas-powered cars by 2035

[Rip Snorter]

Interesting, managers of three electrical co-ops here in Montana are unanimous that both fossil fuels (coal in particular)  and Hydro are necessary to meet energy needs and that the 2035 date is not achievable.  Consider, Montana is one of the largest and also least populous states.  Travel distances here do not favor broad use of electric cars.

[bgavin]

Hottest I've seen was 116 in Badwater Basin, Death Valley
This was a tie for a particularly hot day in Sacramento.
However... that Death Valley temp was in mid-October.

[Buckshot Bob]

[Buckshot Bob]

[Still hand Bill]

Let’s look at this realistically, CA sells about 2 million cars per year, assuming they are all electric and have similar usage as current cars we can calculate how much power will need to be added to the grid each year.  If we assume normal driving of 12k per year and 4 m/kwh that’s an additional 6000 gigawatt hours per year needed in California or 16500 megawatt hours per day.  On an demand level that’s only 700 mw increase in demand at any time.  Considering the state runs at around 27,000 mw at anytime, if I did the math right, they should be able to handle the load if it’s spread out as it’s a 2.5% increase per year in electrical usage.  
 

I expect the problem will be fast charging.  If we use 150kw charging stations as the benchmark, how many cars can fast charge before we have issues?   To increase demand 10% that is 2700 mw, that is only 18000 cars fast charging at once.   To double demand it would take 180000 cars charging at once or about 10% of the new cars of that year.    This will be the issue unless I was off by a decimal point or two. 

[Slapshot]

I wonder which politicians are getting kick backs for pushing this so called green agenda? Funny thing is people are to stupid to realize its not green at all. Windmills need oil for lubrication which they leak onto the land or into the ocean, batteries are a hazard in there own. Yep really would like to see the money trail behind all this.

[Slapshot]

2 minutes ago, Still hand Bill said:

Let’s look at this realistically, CA sells about 2 million cars per year, assuming they are all electric and have similar usage as current cars we can calculate how much power will need to be added to the grid each year.  If we assume normal driving of 12k per year and 4 m/kwh that’s an additional 6000 gigawatt hours per year needed in California or 16500 megawatt hours per day.  On an demand level that’s only 700 mw increase in demand at any time.  Considering the state runs at around 27,000 mw at anytime, if I did the math right, they should be able to handle the load if it’s spread out as it’s a 2.5% increase per year in electrical usage.  
 

I expect the problem will be fast charging.  If we use 150kw charging stations as the benchmark, how many cars can fast charge before we have issues?   To increase demand 10% that is 2700 mw, that is only 18000 cars fast charging at once.   To double demand it would take 180000 cars charging at once or about 10% of the new cars of that year.    This will be the issue unless I was off by a decimal point or two. 

California can't buy enough electricity now for their people without electric cars. How are they going to handle consumption with everyone owning and charging electric cars? Hell they can't handle it right now asking people to restrict electric usage and giving certain times to charge cars.

[Slapshot]

16 hours ago, bgavin said:

Hottest I've seen was 116 in Badwater Basin, Death Valley
This was a tie for a particularly hot day in Sacramento.
However... that Death Valley temp was in mid-October.

Hottest temp in Death Valley according to Mr Google was 134 degrees many years ago. Guess global warming is like covid just rears its ugly head when it serves a purpose.

[bgavin]

I just got my second notice from the power company to conserve power.
Set thermostat to 80 degrees, turn off the lights, don't use appliances.

No mention of "don't charge your electric car."
The People's Republic of Davis (CA) has a very high population of Prius EVs.
The 2005 model is the choice of catalytic converter thieves because it contains the highest amount of rare metals.

I am very aware of the difference between an EV and porcupine:  the EV has the pricks on the inside.

[Cypress Sun]

The irony is strong with this one....

 

West Virginia coal miners help tourists push their dead electric car | Fox Business

[Subdeacon Joe]

9 hours ago, bgavin said:

he People's Republic of Davis (CA) has a very high population of Prius EVs.

 

Prius is a hybrid or a plug-in hybrid, not an EV.

 

9 hours ago, bgavin said:

The 2005 model is the choice of catalytic converter thieves because it contains the highest amount of rare metals.

 

EVs don't have catalytic converters.

[bgavin]

Golly, no kidding.

What’s next?  The grammar police?

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

10 minutes ago, bgavin said:

Golly, no kidding.

What’s next?  The grammar police?

 

 

In your post you said that the Prius is an EV.   If you are going to complain about the anti-gun nuts not using correct terminology you should make sure that you use correct terminology.

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

Regarding the "conservation notice" that some have talked about...

Here in Colorado about 20,000 Xcel Energy customers (our largest energy provider) had their home thermostats overridden and set at 80 degrees by  their electricity provider. These customers had signed up for "managed energy use" with Xcel and in return for about a $100 yearly credit they turned their home temperature control system over to Xcel to regulate to more efficiently operate their (Xcel) grid. Once Xcel declared a electrical emergency the customers no longer had any say in how hot it could be in their home or how much/little they could turn up or down their A/C. Ambient air temperature was around 99-100 depending on location (which is pretty normal this time of year). Lots of annoyed people but Xcel response was "they knew this could happen and they gave us permission to override their home control, it was in their customer agreement and will probably happen again". Lived in Colorado 99.9% of my life and this is the first time I have heard of such a thing.

Now I don't have a "modern" remotely controlled thermostat but after reading more about this I can guarantee that I will not be surrendering my in home temperature control to anybody under these circumstances.

Regards

   

Gateway Kid

[Buckshot Bob]

[Still hand Bill]

Colorado, now California East.  

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

19 hours ago, Still hand Bill said:

Colorado, now California East.  

Sadly yes.

Crime skyrocketing.

Taxes skyrocketing.

State deficit skyrocketing.

Groceries skyrocketing.

Consumer goods such as gasoline skyrocketing.

Homeless.... excuse me "unhoused" skyrocketing.

Planned releases of apex predators in western cattle country planned (no scheduled releases for the front range or Boulder). Even when you send pictures of the torn apart bodies of their prey such as cattle, sheep, your dogs or cats the animal rights folks say "tough" your problem.

Gay Governor and his "First Husband" still getting full salary, unaffected by electrical emergency, full time security force, someday will get around to visiting western slope (they have only been in power for 6 years) First Husband has stated that those "selfish, self centered farmers and ranchers" are parasites on the state and only hang around to get benefits from the state and of course everyone knows the mountains prohibit east to west travel to actually see how those they swore an oath to represent are dealing with their "progressive" legislation.

As a refugee from the Denver Metro area to western Colorado 26 years ago it makes me sick looking at Denver and what its liberal transplants have turned this state into.

Regards

   

Gateway Kid

[Phantom Falcon, SASS # 46139]

21 hours ago, Still hand Bill said:

Colorado, now California East.  

Sadly, a lot of DPRK expats are trying to turn AZ into Kalifornia Southeast. I don't understand people. They leave a sewer like KA and move to a nicer place. Immediately they set about transforming the nice place into the same sewer they just left. We have way too many DPRK expats; we do not any more. Same goes for damnyankees. Stay home and leave AZ alone. Thanks to all the migrants into AZ. we now have Kelly and Sinema.

 

PF

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

25 minutes ago, Phantom Falcon, SASS # 46139 said:

Sadly, a lot of DPRK expats are trying to turn AZ into Kalifornia Southeast. I don't understand people. They leave a sewer like KA and move to a nicer place. Immediately they set about transforming the nice place into the same sewer they just left. We have way too many DPRK expats; we do not any more. Same goes for damnyankees. Stay home and leave AZ alone. Thanks to all the migrants into AZ. we now have Kelly and Sinema.

 

PF

 

Yup... Gavin's Minions want y'all to ban lead ammunition, too... following the lead of themselves, the self-anointed Enlightened Ones.  

[Subdeacon Joe]

What I have been leaving on the FB pages of my elected representatives and government pages telling us to not use electricity because it's straining the grid:

 

"

How can this energy problem be happening in THE FIFTH LARGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD!!!!!?

Especially since Democrats have had almost unbroken control of the Legislature since 1959, and have held the majority on both houses since about 1975?  We are a paradise for the peace-loving peasants and workers of our glorious progressive State!"

[bgavin]

We have been getting notifications of rolling blackouts all day today.
We peaked at 114 degrees.
I have my A/C condenser unit in the shade with a mister running on the coils.
I figure the small increase in water bill is less costly than burning out the A/C compressor.
We have the house running at 85, and the A/C is still laboring.

And no mention at all about not charging your electric vehicle.
No mention at all.

I have to chuckle... a typical charger is 240v and 50 amp circuit.
Tesla says 32 amps = 7,680 watts.
How about that... running a big welder, all night long, just to charge your car.
Multiplied by the 14.2 million cars registered in CA.

Bye, bye grid...

[Subdeacon Joe]

39 minutes ago, bgavin said:

a typical charger is 240v and 50 amp circuit.

 

I had a devil of a time finding information but it looks like at least half of the people who charge at home do not have the extra 220v dryer plug and just plug into the 120v 15 anp household outlet.   I'll grant that it's a small sample, but I don't know anyone who had the 220v installed.  The dozen or so, including myself, just use the 120 volt.  Basically, leaving a light and the tv on all night.

[Clay Mosby]

Our house hit 90° with the therm set to 78° and it was laboring mightily. We were told when we had the ducting replaced 3-4 yrs ago that the 3 ton unit we have is borderline for our 1600sqft home. Add to that the fact that medically the wife and I both suffer in temps above 85° and you can imagine our reaction when told "WE" have to "suck it up" to protect the power grid. I do NOT believe that awnty p's nephew has any of his thermostats set to 80°.

If the outside temp falls below the inside, the whole house fan goes on, then the therm gets set to 72° until inside hits 74° then therm is set to 76° and left there. If grusome wants it lower he can heigh his little arse over here and set it himself. (Of course it gets reset the second he leaves.)

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

I was a bad boy yesterday.  I got home from work, changed clothes, and took my wife for a pleasant drive with the AC on in the car.  Out about an hour.   Got home about 18:00 and PLUGGED THE CAR IN!  Only the 110, 15 amp.  

Naughty boy!

[Cypress Sun]

10 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

I was a bad boy yesterday.  I got home from work, changed clothes, and took my wife for a pleasant drive with the AC on in the car.  Out about an hour.   Got home about 18:00 and PLUGGED THE CAR IN!  Only the 110, 15 amp.  

Naughty boy!

 

You scofflaw!

[bgavin]

7 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

The dozen or so, including myself, just use the 120 volt.  Basically, leaving a light and the tv on all night.

I figured you owned one of these.

As of June 30, 2022 there are 563,070 ZEV registered in CA.
The lowest possible power consumption for charging is 1,320 watts per hour, with a yield of 4~6 miles per charge.
An overnight off-peak charge of 8 hours consumes 10,560 watts with a yield of 48 miles of travel.
10.5kW a very big light and TV set left on all night.

Multiply this by the number of ZEV registered and you get a 5,946,019 kwH drain on the grid.  Every night.
ZEV registrations are concentrated in the Bay Area and SoCal.

This is the bare minimum, because the top seller is Tesla, and those who can afford one, can also afford the 32 amp charger to recharge those 60+ kwH batteries.
This means the grid drain is far higher than the 120v minimum chargers draw.

The only thing CA produces in abundance is bums and building permits.
Power generation in CA is insufficient at best, resulting in us buying external power from AZ and others.

-------------------
Level 1 Charge
-------------------
• 120v outlet
• 15 amp circuit
• 11 amps charge rate
• 1,320 watts per hour
• 4-6 miles per charge hour

• 120v outlet
• 20 amp circuit
• 16 amps charge rate
• 1,920 watts per hour
• 12 miles per charge hour

-------------------
Level 2 Charge
-------------------
• 240v outlet
• 40 amp circuit
• 32 amps charge rate
• 7,680 watts per hour
• 25 miles per charge hour

-------------------------
Level 3 Fast Charge
-------------------------
• 240v outlet
• 50 amp circuit
• 40 amps charge rate
• 9,600 watts per hour
• 30 miles per charge hour

 

• 240v outlet
• 70 amp circuit
• 50 amps charge rate
• 12,000 watts per hour
• 37 miles per charge hour

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

Will this make 10 pages?? Bets anyone??

[Eyesa Horg]

3 minutes ago, bgavin said:

I figured you owned one of these.

As of June 30, 2022 there are 563,070 ZEV registered in CA.
The lowest possible power consumption for charging is 1,320 watts per hour, with a yield of 4~6 miles per charge.
An overnight off-peak charge of 8 hours consumes 10,560 watts with a yield of 48 miles of travel.
10.5kW a very big light and TV set left on all night.

Multiply this by the number of ZEV registered and you get a 5,946,019 kwH drain on the grid.  Every night.
ZEV registrations are concentrated in the Bay Area and SoCal.

This is the bare minimum, because the top seller is Tesla, and those who can afford one, can also afford the 32 amp charger to recharge those 60+ kwH batteries.
This means the grid drain is far higher than the 120v minimum chargers draw.

The only thing CA produces in abundance is bums and building permits.
Power generation in CA is insufficient at best, resulting in us buying external power from AZ and others.

-------------------
Level 1 Charge
-------------------
• 120v outlet
• 15 amp circuit
• 11 amps charge rate
• 1,320 watts per hour
• 4-6 miles per charge hour

• 120v outlet
• 20 amp circuit
• 16 amps charge rate
• 1,920 watts per hour
• 12 miles per charge hour

-------------------
Level 2 Charge
-------------------
• 240v outlet
• 40 amp circuit
• 32 amps charge rate
• 7,680 watts per hour
• 25 miles per charge hour

-------------------------
Level 3 Fast Charge
-------------------------
• 240v outlet
• 50 amp circuit
• 40 amps charge rate
• 9,600 watts per hour
• 30 miles per charge hour

 

• 240v outlet
• 70 amp circuit
• 50 amps charge rate
• 12,000 watts per hour
• 37 miles per charge hour

 

They should be able to easily charge millions of them in 10 years. Just don't use any in your house. Back to lanterns and camp fires to cook. 

[Phantom Falcon, SASS # 46139]

If it were up to me, I wouldn't sell KA a damn thing. I'm tired of them sucking off our power. Ditch your NIMBY attitude and build your own power plants and reservoirs. Drill your own wells and refine your own gas. Quit expecting others to satisfy your needs. 

 

PF

[Still hand Bill]

18 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

I had a devil of a time finding information but it looks like at least half of the people who charge at home do not have the extra 220v dryer plug and just plug into the 120v 15 anp household outlet.   I'll grant that it's a small sample, but I don't know anyone who had the 220v installed.  The dozen or so, including myself, just use the 120 volt.  Basically, leaving a light and the tv on all night.

I used more power than that every day.  I had two 240v charge circuits put in my garage, one 50 amps and one 20 amp.    The 50 amp was for the ev and the 20 amp was for the phev.    A 110 at 12 amps would not charge the car overnight.  At 1.3 kw, in 12 hrs that’s only about 15 kwh of charging, somewhere between 30 and 60 miles of driving.   I was between 60-150 per day.    With a level 2 charger, 240 x 30 amps, I could easily charge at off peak, ie after 10 pm and have a full charge by 7am. 

[Subdeacon Joe]

28 minutes ago, Still hand Bill said:

I used more power than that every day.  I had two 240v charge circuits put in my garage, one 50 amps and one 20 amp.    The 50 amp was for the ev and the 20 amp was for the phev.    A 110 at 12 amps would not charge the car overnight.  At 1.3 kw, in 12 hrs that’s only about 15 kwh of charging, somewhere between 30 and 60 miles of driving.   I was between 60-150 per day.    With a level 2 charger, 240 x 30 amps, I could easily charge at off peak, ie after 10 pm and have a full charge by 7am. 

 

I get about 60 miles of range overnight.  My daily commute is about 26 miles round trip.   Average commute for Americans is about 40 miles round trip.  (I know that most people reading this have a commute distance of 250 miles each way towing a 20,000 pound trailer uphill each way and so can't use an EV)

 

So I might "top off" once during the week, sometimes twice.  My wife and I will usually go to a fast charger on Friday evening for our date night (oh, how exciting and romantic! Be still my heart!), and do some shopping while the car charges.  If we get really wild we might go for an evening drive, maybe out to Bodega Bay, and then plug in again at home.

 

ADDED:

Thank you for showing that an EV can be useful for longish commutes, not just a ten mile round trip that so many memes imply.

[Rip Snorter]

I did a 150 mile round trip yesterday for essential dog meds and again today for a medical appointment and a hearing aid adjustment - that 150 is just getting to Billings and home, not the drive around needed in the city.

Yesterday was a 3 hour round trip, today around 5.  No recharge required, I'm not sure it is even possible in Billings, and it will never matter to me!

[Subdeacon Joe]

Yes, there are chargers in Billings.  

[Slapshot]

27 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

I get about 60 miles of range overnight.  My daily commute is about 26 miles round trip.   Average commute for Americans is about 40 miles round trip.  (I know that most people reading this have a commute distance of 250 miles each way towing a 20,000 pound trailer uphill each way and so can't use an EV)

 

So I might "top off" once during the week, sometimes twice.  My wife and I will usually go to a fast charger on Friday evening for our date night (oh, how exciting and romantic! Be still my heart!), and do some shopping while the car charges.  If we get really wild we might go for an evening drive, maybe out to Bodega Bay, and then plug in again at home.

 

ADDED:

Thank you for showing that an EV can be useful for longish commutes, not just a ten mile round trip that so many memes imply.

So where are you getting your so called facts on average commute? You honestly believe everyone lives within 20 miles of there job? Not everyone lives inside the cities and there are a huge amount of people that live in rural areas with over 40 mile commutes. 

Light and a tv, lol, yeah right. I really love listening to your Cali attitude. Its really easy to see why Cali is in the shape it is in.

[Slapshot]

35 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Thank you for showing that an EV can be useful for longish commutes, not just a ten mile round trip that so many memes imply.

I don't think you understand what a long commute is.