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Couple of non-SASS Gun Questions - See page 3. I bought a Kel-Tec CP33


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16 minutes ago, Old Man Graybeard said:

I have a Ruger and a couple of Buckmarks. I like them all. A friend of mine bought a Smith and Wesson performance center Victory. Smith should be ashamed of building such a piece of crap...and their quality control. Last I knew...they had sent him a shipping label to return it.

Thank you.
No, the S&W “Victory” is not a contender for me. I had an S&W 22S. The most finicky gun I have ever owned. I have big hands, but the grip was too big for me. The Victory is nothing more than the 22S with a reconfiguration of the upper. PITA gun. And it wasn’t all that accurate anyway. 

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After recommendations here and doing lots of reading my choices are Ruger MK IV and Browning Buckmark. Now I just have to handle them and pick options. 
 

I never realized how many models of each manufacturer are available. Holy Cow!

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Pat,

How nice is it to be able to buy whatever you want now? No more lists.:D:FlagAm:

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3 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Pat,

How nice is it to be able to buy whatever you want now? No more lists.:D:FlagAm:

Yes It Is! :D

 

I still don’t have my WV driver’s license. I will need that to make a firearms purchase, but that’s okay. It’ll get here soon enough. 

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Well, after doing more research and watching videos and doing comparisons I have decided to add the S&W Victory to my hands on test. I am going to a range tomorrow to hopefully shoot all 3.

 

My main reason for giving the Victory another look is two-fold. 
1. The open letter the CEO of S&W wrote to all the liberal politicians a couple of days ago. 
2. I find the Victory is not a rehash of the 22S or 22A. 
So, I will check it out also. 

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I would not recommend the Ruger LCP II.  While it's fun to shoot and accurate, I don't think I've had a range session without a fail to feed.

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1 hour ago, Wyoma said:

I would not recommend the Ruger LCP II.  While it's fun to shoot and accurate, I don't think I've had a range session without a fail to feed.

Thank you, but I am looking more at a target pistol…or I should say, a pistol for target shooting. 

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Pat,

when you say 'affordable', that is subjective to some of us.

 

BUT, my list for a quality .22 semi-auto, based on 1st hand experience is:

 

1.  Volquartsen Ruger MK IV. (I own 2 of them and they are exception.  Mine are built on the 'standard' Ruger grip frame, not the 22/44 frame)

2. S&W model 41. (love these pistols for their reliability and beauty.  Plus, as simple to take down and clean as the Ruger MK IV)

3. Browning Buckmark (accurate, reliable and beautiful.   Many variations and all work great.   Take down and cleaning ain't hard, but not as

simple as the Ruger MK IV or S&W model 41)

4. Walther PPQ (often referred to as the PPQ-22).  This a dandy pistol, fun to shoot and about as accurate as most of us can shoot it.

Mine is in the 5" barrel configuration and handles great.

 

If you can find one in good shape around $1000, get the Colt Woodsman Match Target or about any of the High Standard .22 target pistols, especially

the High Standard Victor, Trophy ,or  Citation.....

 

Good luck.

 

..........Widder

 

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56 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Pat,

when you say 'affordable', that is subjective to some of us.

 

BUT, my list for a quality .22 semi-auto, based on 1st hand experience is:

 

1.  Volquartsen Ruger MK IV. (I own 2 of them and they are exception.  Mine are built on the 'standard' Ruger grip frame, not the 22/44 frame)

2. S&W model 41. (love these pistols for their reliability and beauty.  Plus, as simple to take down and clean as the Ruger MK IV)

3. Browning Buckmark (accurate, reliable and beautiful.   Many variations and all work great.   Take down and cleaning ain't hard, but not as

simple as the Ruger MK IV or S&W model 41)

4. Walther PPQ (often referred to as the PPQ-22).  This a dandy pistol, fun to shoot and about as accurate as most of us can shoot it.

Mine is in the 5" barrel configuration and handles great.

 

If you can find one in good shape around $1000, get the Colt Woodsman Match Target or about any of the High Standard .22 target pistols, especially

the High Standard Victor, Trophy ,or  Citation.....

 

Good luck.

 

..........Widder

 

Thank you, Widder.
I am looking at “affordable” as under $600. I have no interest in the older guns, only new. In revolvers I love older model revolvers and possibly 1911s, but my experience with autoloading handguns is with 1911s and Glocks and very limited in all others. I don’t intend to buy an older gun that may need unattainable parts. ;)

 

I had not really considered the Walther target model. That may also be worth a look. Thank you. 

 

 

 

 

 

General comment - not directed at Widder. :)

This comment is more of a statement and not directed at anyone here in particular. Every forum I have gone to I see the same things. “Buy a whatch-ma-call-it gun then add the whose-ewhatsiss trigger kit and the oh-ma-gawd barrel and you’ll have a great gun!”
 

One thing I am not looking for is a Lego / Barbie gun. My goal is not to buy a gun then start playing mix-n-match with parts and big name custom kits and such. In other words, I have no intention of buying a gun that “needs” aftermarket parts to become “better”.

I am pretty sure the engineers at Ruger, S&W, Browning, etc. kind of know what they’re doing. At most I may change grips or sights, but that’s about it. Oh, I may debur some parts or change a spring, but rebuilding a brand knew gun ain’t happening.   I am also one that likes having plenty of magazines. I would rather put money towards a dozen good mags than I would an overpriced trigger kit in an already good gun. 
 

Close comment 
 

 

 

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Hey Pat,

I have 14 mags for my Ruger MK IV.      They are plentiful and affordable to keep a bunch of them.

Sometimes, I load ALL of them up and take a Ruger with me on my ATV.   When I feel like it, I can whip it out and shoot all I want

with those 14 loaded mags.

 

..........Widder

 

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Just now, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Hey Pat,

I have 14 mags for my Ruger MK IV.      They are plentiful and affordable to keep a bunch of them.

Sometimes, I load ALL of them up and take a Ruger with me on my ATV.   When I feel like it, I can whip it out and shoot all I want

with those 14 loaded mags.

 

..........Widder

 

That’s one really good reason for having lots of mags. :)

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While I realize that this thread is about semi automatic pistols, this thought just forced itself into my mind.

 

I have a Mark I bull barrel. One of my favorite guns. Magazines run about 20 bucks. 14 magazines would be $280.

 

If instead of buying 14 magazines for my semi-automatic, I bought $280 worth of 22s for my revolver, which gun do you believe I would be able to shoot longer?

 

Neener neener neener.

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18 minutes ago, Alpo said:

While I realize that this thread is about semi automatic pistols, this thought just forced itself into my mind.

 

I have a Mark I bull barrel. One of my favorite guns. Magazines run about 20 bucks. 14 magazines would be $280.

 

If instead of buying 14 magazines for my semi-automatic, I bought $280 worth of 22s for my revolver, which gun do you believe I would be able to shoot longer?

 

Neener neener neener.

I have two .22 LR revolvers. A model 17-3 and a model 63. I want an autoloader with a dozen mags. Nah-na-na-na-naaaa-nahhhh. :P

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And I also have a S&W model 617-6..... and often prefer the semi-auto with a basket full of mags, which are also full and ready to rock-n-roll.

 

Oh yea, my 617 is a 10 shooter AND I have a 10 pack "Speed Beez"  speed loader for it.   But there's just something special about a good,

reliable and accurate semi-auto.

 

 

..........Widder

 

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I shoot rimfire Bullseye and silhouette matches before cowboy.  A Ruger Mark II Govt, early Colt Marksman and a Smith 41 were all more accurate than me.

Real accuracy in a .22 comes with finding what it likes.  Three different pistols liked three different .22 rounds but all were standard velocity.  Standard velocity does not have great terminal performance on critters.

My S&W Model 18 is now my go-to .22.

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2 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I have two .22 LR revolvers. A model 17-3 and a model 63. I want an autoloader with a dozen mags. Nah-na-na-na-naaaa-nahhhh. :P

The .22 caliber pistol Glock makes is very nice.

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2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

The .22 caliber pistol Glock makes is very nice.

I was actually going to buy one, but decided I wanted something more…shall we say, hand filling with a longer barrel. 
The 44 is the same size as the G19. I had a G19. I really didn’t care for it, but it was more due to the finger grooves than anything else. 
 

 

 

I spotted this thing at a gun store today. I stole the photo online but it’s an exact representation. It’s so ugly it’s cool. 
63752631-4D60-4C4F-B004-63BEB1B0D48A.thumb.jpeg.ed4749bccb12e3fd3faa67fe0364a6cc.jpeg

 

Kel-Tec CP33 .22LR

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6 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 But there's just something special about a good,reliable and accurate semi-auto.

..........Widder

 

Indeed.
My only semi-auto is a Mercury 22LR passed down to me by my Dad.
I hate this thing SO much, I won't even use it as a boat anchor or fishing lure... cuz it will always sink intermittently.
:D

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I would like to have a Whitney Wolverine.

 

I don't know if, as a reliable or accurate firearm, it's worth a crap.

 

But it just looks so cool.

 

11872366_1.thumb.jpg.32b834b7df6312965a2989e539206321.jpg

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I used to get Gun Digest, Stoegers, etc. for Christmas as a boy,  Whitneys came out in the late 50's and I always wanted one as well.  Had a chance at one years ago at a gun show, can't recall why I didn't get it - something else must have pulled harder. 

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The Rugers are great.  I like the Buckmark too.  Right now, my favorite is the Ruger SR .22.  I won one a couple years ago and it has become my throw in the pack field gun. Comes with several sets of grips so you can fit it to your hand.

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4 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I was actually going to buy one, but decided I wanted something more…shall we say, hand filling with a longer barrel. 
The 44 is the same size as the G19. I had a G19. I really didn’t care for it, but it was more due to the finger grooves than anything else. 

My everyday carry is a G19/Gen5. Fits my hands better than any other Glock ever has.

Maybe you should get 2, 22's ......  ;)

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48 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

My everyday carry is a G19/Gen5. Fits my hands better than any other Glock ever has.

Maybe you should get 2, 22's ......  ;)

I was truly hoping the G44 was going to have a G17 sized frame when I heard about them coming out in 2018. Then I moved to CA as they were released and it really didn’t matter. I couldn’t buy one. 
I may have to check them out. I see the grip doesn’t have finger grooves. 

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18 hours ago, Tom Bullweed said:

Real accuracy in a .22 comes with finding what it likes.

 

8 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

^^^^THIS^^^^

Yep, I do understand that for sure and one cannot reload to tune things in. 
I want accuracy and I understand how .22 LR guns can be in that regard. What I don’t want is a gun that is accurate with a load that it also jams a lot with. Years ago I had a S&W 22S. The loads it was accurate with also jammed the gun occasionally. The loads that the gun operated perfectly with weren’t accurate except for CCI Stinger. The gun loved ‘em. At that time finding Stingers was hit or miss. I tried to like that gun and even bought another factory barrel to see if that would help. It didn’t. I sold it. 
 

Blessed are the .22’s that eat everything and shoot well with all. :lol:

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16 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I was actually going to buy one, but decided I wanted something more…shall we say, hand filling with a longer barrel. 
The 44 is the same size as the G19. I had a G19. I really didn’t care for it, but it was more due to the finger grooves than anything else. 
 

 

 

I spotted this thing at a gun store today. I stole the photo online but it’s an exact representation. It’s so ugly it’s cool. 
63752631-4D60-4C4F-B004-63BEB1B0D48A.thumb.jpeg.ed4749bccb12e3fd3faa67fe0364a6cc.jpeg

 

Kel-Tec CP33 .22LR

Can't speak to the CP33, but the PMR30 is fun. :D

Also ugly, but fun.

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1 hour ago, Chief Rick said:

Can't speak to the CP33, but the PMR30 is fun. :D

Also ugly, but fun.

I would love to shoot a CP33. They get good reviews for accuracy and reliability. Some folks treat them as if they’ll get leprosy just looking at them, which I find funny. 
 

I came very close to buying a PMR30 in Oregon just before I moved to CA. Me and the owner of my former favorite gun store had a major falling out. They had several PMR’s to choose from, but I wouldn’t buy from them and couldn’t find one elsewhere at the time. My desire for one has cooled a bit since then. 

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On 8/18/2022 at 4:23 PM, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Well, after doing more research and watching videos and doing comparisons I have decided to add the S&W Victory to my hands on test. I am going to a range tomorrow to hopefully shoot all 3.

 

My main reason for giving the Victory another look is two-fold. 
1. The open letter the CEO of S&W wrote to all the liberal politicians a couple of days ago. 
2. I find the Victory is not a rehash of the 22S or 22A. 
So, I will check it out also. 

I've shot the Rugers many times - they're reliable as all Ruger products, and pretty accurate as well.

Likewise the Browning Buckmark series are excellent feeling and performing.

 

I also have a Browning 1911-22 which while expensive is also great fun and useful for teaching gun shy ladies and

children how to shoot.

I use the S&W victory and have tuned the action (Tandemkross) , swapped out the original barrel with a Volksquartsen

fiber wrapped barrel and run a red dot sight.  I'm back to stock barrel and irons for steel shooting!

I bought the threaded version(s) since I intend to put a can on it at some time (if I have a roof-rabbit or other varmint problem).

 

I ran through a series of about 25-30 different ammunition options for these 2 pistols and my CZ-455 rifle and my

Nordic Components .22 upper on my AR, and have concluded that the one ammunition that does amazingly tight groups and

reliable functioning in all 4 guns is the CCI Std. Velocity at 1070 f/s! 

 

Nothing out performs it at 25 yds, although there are a few rifle specific loads that will take it to 200 yds.  Not in a handgun!

 

You won't go wrong with any of the options you mention, so fit and comfort will have to be the deciding criteria.

 

SC

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I have a Ruger MkII with bull barrel.  It is a tack driver & PITA to clean beyond the barrel & breech face.  The MkIV fixes that or you can add an aftermarket take down kit.  I have a hand me down Winchester model 61, CZ452 & CMMG 22LR conversion for 5.56x45/223 AR-15 to feed.  So, when the price for 22LR became available at reasonable prices after Sandy Hook I started buying.  By 2019 there was no more room to store it.  I had 23,000 22LR when I quit buying 22LR.  That was in the good old days.

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5 hours ago, J.D. Daily said:

I have a Ruger MkII with bull barrel.  It is a tack driver & PITA to clean beyond the barrel & breech face.

 

Advertised in "American Rifleman":

https://www.hammerstrutsupport.com/

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15 hours ago, J.D. Daily said:

I have a Ruger MkII with bull barrel.  It is a tack driver & PITA to clean beyond the barrel & breech face.  The MkIV fixes that or you can add an aftermarket take down kit.  I have a hand me down Winchester model 61, CZ452 & CMMG 22LR conversion for 5.56x45/223 AR-15 to feed.  So, when the price for 22LR became available at reasonable prices after Sandy Hook I started buying.  By 2019 there was no more room to store it.  I had 23,000 22LR when I quit buying 22LR.  That was in the good old days.

 

9 hours ago, Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L said:

 

Advertised in "American Rifleman":

https://www.hammerstrutsupport.com/


Okay, I guess I am confused. I thought the Ruger Mk IV had a simple push button takedown already.

My goal here isn’t to buy a gun that needs a bunch of doodads to make it “better”.

Isn’t this how it comes from the factory?

 

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The mark 4 does have the simple takedown. The previous models did not and have a reputation for being a pia to re assemble . With the old ones once you’ve done it a couple hundred times it’s not bad . :) 

Just buy the new one and no worries, it’s not as bad as people make it out to be , I’ve got a mark 3 and I’m not trying to dump it to get a mark 4 

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I have a Ruger 22/45 modified to remove the magazine disconnect and with fiber optic sights added.


It’s a good gun. It has the same grip angle as a 1911 and the controls are in the same place. Yeah they’re shaped differently, but that’s obvious to the most casual observer, so don’t blame Ruger if you failed to look at the gun before buying it.

 

It’s threaded to take a suppressor. Never had a Ftf and it’s accuracy is fine. I don’t shoot it much, but it’s a handy survival pistol to go in my bug out bag with the 10/22 and other ‘stuff.’

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I have the Ruger MK IV and it has the 1 button takedown. The previous models do not. 
 

I have a friend that is a machinist/gunsmith and he has a way to easily modify a stock pistol  so the it can accept a suppressor. 

Edited by Sedalia Dave
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  • Pat Riot, SASS #13748 changed the title to Couple of non-SASS Gun Questions - See page 3. I bought a Kel-Tec CP33

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