Winchester 1873 Competition vs Taylor's 1873 Comanchero

[Phineas Colt]

Anyone with perspective on which of these would be a better pick? Pros cons of them? I'm leaning towards the Winchester since they told me they don't use an acid wash for the color case hardening.

 

https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-1873/current/model-1873-competition-carbine-high-grade.html

https://taylorsfirearms.com/catalog/product/view/id/5169/s/1873-checkered-straight-stock-rifle/category/53/

[Tyrel Cody]

I'd personally get the Uberti from Taylor's so I could get a Cowboys & Indians short stroke kit put in it, but that's me. 

 

More upgrades available for Uberti.

[Captain Bill Burt]

I agree with Tyrel.  I'm sure they're both fine guns, but there are a lot more parts available for the Uberti and I'm pretty sure it will be easier finding a gunsmith to work on it as well.

[Phineas Colt]

@Tyrel Cody @Captain Bill Burt

Thanks for the fast response guys. So I guess paying extra for the Comanchero version would be pointless as well. Being as I would then install that short stroke kit you mentioned.

[Tyrel Cody]

3 minutes ago, Phineas Colt said:

@Tyrel Cody @Captain Bill Burt

Thanks for the fast response guys. So I guess paying extra for the Comanchero version would be pointless as well. Being as I would then install that short stroke kit you mentioned.

Maybe. A lot depends on availability; you might not find a Uberti cheaper than a Comanchero in stock.

[Major M.D. Driver]

Think comanchero comes with shortstroke leather wrap and front bead sight lighter hammer spring. At least mine did.

[Rye Miles #13621]

18 minutes ago, Phineas Colt said:

@Tyrel Cody @Captain Bill Burt

Thanks for the fast response guys. So I guess paying extra for the Comanchero version would be pointless as well. Being as I would then install that short stroke kit you mentioned.

I had a bad experience with my Taylor's Comanchero that was factory slicked up. Beware, it's a cut and weld NOT a true short stroke. I bought a C&I SS kit and I had to get a NEW LEVER as well. It works great. I would get the STOCK Comanchero and have the SS kit installed. Just from my experience!

PM me if you'd like I'll explain.

Rye

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

I have extensive experience with both rifles. For my money it would be the Winchester Comp. You don't need a bunch of extra parts when you're starting with quality to begin with. The Winchester will still require and action job from a competent gunsmith who knows these rifles. But so has every Commanchero I've had in my hands. The Uberti is simply a chassis. 

[Uncle Ethan # 94321]

My Winchester was also short stroked. I asked before buying because I read kits for these are not available. Only problem I have had was ejecting brass. Working fine now. Local gun Smith took care of it.

[Phineas Colt]

@Deuce Stevens SASS#55996

The Winchester Comp is already a short stroke so what kind of action job do you mean. Polish the internal parts and lighter hammer spring or would more need done?

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Where in the ad you posted do you find any mention of a short stroke?  

 

https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-1873/current/model-1873-competition-carbine-high-grade.html

[Buckshot Bear]

10 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Where in the ad you posted do you find any mention of a short stroke?  

 

https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-1873/current/model-1873-competition-carbine-high-grade.html

 

It does mention it in this Aussie listing - 

 

https://www.cleaverfirearms.com/Products.aspx?Category=Rifles&Brand=2

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

How do you know it is the same gun sold here in the U.S?  If the U.S. version of the gun had a short stroke it would be a major feature and it would seem it would be mentioned in the ad.

 

Part of the problem in describing the Winchester/Miroku version is that the stroke is "shorter" than a Uberti.  It is not, however, what most competitive shooters would consider "short stroked."  Ad writers are generally not engineers or shooters.

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

All of the out of the box Winchesters I have tried have a shorter stroke than the standard Uberti lever stroke.  I looked into short stroking a Winchester and the one 'smith I spoke with said it's a cut and weld procedure.  As there doesn't appear to be any "kit" for altering Winchesters that is the only way it can be done.  One member was looking for parts for a Winchester that was at the 'smith, for short stroking as the parts in that rifle were not standard, but wasn't able to find any, as far as I know.

[Phineas Colt]

It looks like a shorter stroke here plus he mentions it.

 

 

[Muggle]

Winchester 1873 Competition any day, I own one and its hut to shoot.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

PLUS ONE for Pettifogger

 

Advertising writers are truly a Bane.  They just simply don't have a clue no matter if "they" are here or "down under."  Collective stupidity runs rampant.  The Miroku/Winchester has a shorter stroke than a Uberti.  ALL Miroku built '73s have a shorter stroke.  And once you have one, that's what you have.  There are no after-market parts for the Miroku at this time.

 

The Uberti on the other hand, has a plethora of after-market speed parts available.  Sufficient speed parts to result in lever throw MUCH shorter than a Miroku built gun.  There are a multitude of opinions out there whether the Miroku/Winchester or the Uberti is the better sample example.  You pays your money and takes your chances.

[SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER]

Beware of factory "competition ready"  guns as they rarely are. The Winchester is way better out of the box, but the parts thing is a drawback. If you decide Winchester, call Cowboy Carty. Otherwise I eould advise buying a standard Uberti in barrel configuration you want and hand it to a cowboy smith and have it properly set up 

[Buckshot Bear]

1 hour ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

How do you know it is the same gun sold here in the U.S?  If the U.S. version of the gun had a short stroke it would be a major feature and it would seem it would be mentioned in the ad.

 

 

 

Only that they state (Bravo Sierra who knows) "2021 SHOT Show Special" which is US centric.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

I have a Miroku 1873 and a couple "cut and weld" Cody rifles (which are pretty comparable stroke wise to the 3rd gen setups).  The Miroku is slightly (not dramatically) longer stroke than the Codymatics.  I was able to move back and forth without relearning muscle memory.

 

Now the Cody guns were MUCH nicer to run than the Miroku out of the box due to polishing and correct springing rates.

 

I'm not the most skilled but some ham handed polishing and spring reductions made a very decent gun out of the Miroku.  A talented and patient (not my strong suit) smith could make it much smoother yet.

 

I have handled a few of the Uberti factory short strokes and (imo) the short stroke without a good gunsmith cleanup, polish and proper springing is "mostly" a waste of time - a shooter would be better served buying stock (and then using the money saved) to let any number of the talented smiths in our game make it "right" with short stroke kit or cutting.

 

I'm not a big fan of the super short strokes (seems the effort is increased enough to negate most of the time saved in throw - maybe my opinion would change if I regularly used one) so the length on the Miroku throw is usable to me.

 

My view as a high average rifle shooter

(low three to mid two second 10 round dumps)

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

PLUS ONE for Creeker

 

The biggest BANG for the BUCK is a good quality action job.  It's amazing how light and fast (not quick) a '73 can be with good action work.  If done right, on down the road a Short Stroke can be added quite simply.  Without good action work, a Short Stroke Kit just results in a very very heavy lever throw.  Takes two men and a girl to run the lever.  You Pays yer Money and Takes yer Chances.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

When Navy Arms was selling some gussied up (Turnbull I think) Mirokus, didn't they advertise it as short stroked?  There was some question about that and I don't know what the answer was, as to whether they were just referring to the shorter stroke than Uberti or if something had been done to modify the Miroku stroke.

 

I do know that for a very casual shooter, the Miroku is sprung much lighter than Uberti out of the box so feels much smoother.

[Dantankerous]

What Creeker said. My experience and thoughts exactly.

 

I very much like and enjoy shooting my Miroku '73 but my Codymatics are noticeably different/smoother.

 

Nothing wrong with the factory Miroku IMHO. The Cody's are really, really nice.

[Phineas Colt]

On 8/12/2022 at 1:39 PM, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I had a bad experience with my Taylor's Comanchero that was factory slicked up. Beware, it's a cut and weld NOT a true short stroke. I bought a C&I SS kit and I had to get a NEW LEVER as well. It works great. I would get the STOCK Comanchero and have the SS kit installed. Just from my experience!

PM me if you'd like I'll explain.

Rye

@Rye Miles #13621

How long ago did you buy that Comanchero? I just contacted them and they may have changed it up since.

"the links that go into the comachero models replace the factory ones. They are manufactured to be short stroke links"

 

Still probably just going to buy a stock Taylor though and replace it later just to be on the safe side.

[Rye Miles #13621]

I bought it in 2019 and it was a cut and weld not a true short stroke. I sent it back and they acknowledged the jamming problem. I got it back and it was doing the same thing! I had a local gunsmith install a short stroke kit and I had to replace the lever because it was cut and welded! It was a total nightmare !

I know a couple shooters that have the same cut and weld and they have no problem. That said I think I got a lemon!! I would definitely get the stock version and have a gunsmith install a short stroke kit unless you can do it yourself. 
Good luck !!

[July Smith]

In my opinion the Winchester/Miroku rifles are the closest thing to a factory rifle that is out of the box ready for this sport.  If I had to do it all over again I would go with the Miroku rifles.  Not quite as fast as what a Uberti can be turned into with extensive work, but pretty darn good for an out of the box rifle.  

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

38 minutes ago, July Smith said:

In my opinion the Winchester/Miroku rifles are the closest thing to a factory rifle that is out of the box ready for this sport.  If I had to do it all over again I would go with the Miroku rifles.  Not quite as fast as what a Uberti can be turned into with extensive work, but pretty darn good for an out of the box rifle.  

I would agree - but the Miroku is MONSTROUSLY oversprung.  

Spring replacement (or grinding/ shaping - if you're careful) makes for a much nicer experience.

And simple tasks like good cleaning and polishing on wear marks.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

On 8/12/2022 at 5:31 PM, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Where in the ad you posted do you find any mention of a short stroke?  

 

https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-1873/current/model-1873-competition-carbine-high-grade.html

 

Just an odd observation...

Guns are chambered for .38 S&W Special/.357 REMINGTON Magnum or .45 COLT.

But not for .44 WINCHESTER Center Fire.

I find that oddly curious. 

And I mostly shoot .45's.

[Oklahoma Dee]

On 8/12/2022 at 12:42 PM, Phineas Colt said:

Anyone with perspective on which of these would be a better pick? Pros cons of them? I'm leaning towards the Winchester since they told me they don't use an acid wash for the color case hardening.

 

https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-1873/current/model-1873-competition-carbine-high-grade.html

https://taylorsfirearms.com/catalog/product/view/id/5169/s/1873-checkered-straight-stock-rifle/category/53/

Phineas Colt, 

 

There is no right or wrong way to go.  Pick one and learn what works for you.  Your experiences and happiness or sadness with the results is all yours.  No one else's. 

 

What Deuce Stevens stated is truth. 

 

I too, have shot many rifles.  Marlin, Uberti, and now Winchester.  All these rifle makers and those that help us with action jobs/parts, have been on a roller coaster of sorts.  All the rifles are to some degree, are better and evolved more than last 20-30 years.  Smarter/learned gunsmiths, etc help. 

 

I am very successful with the Uberti 1873 rifles with the C&I 4th gen short stroke.  I have won with it and lost with it.  Always felt like it could be smoother and faster. 

 

Well, I am Now shooting the Winchester 1873 Competition carbine (caliber of choice is 38 Special ).  Cowboy Carty did a fine job of cutting it down from 20" to 18" and doing a cut/weld on the lever and some other smoothing and action work.  I have to say, it feels different than the Uberti's.  But seems smoother and faster.  So far, I am growing to be a Winchester fan.

 

So, your path, may be different, your goals may different than mine.  Pick a path or just bulldoze your path.  Great luck and the better shooter you become, the more discriminating your personal observations become. 

 

Shoot what ya got and go from there.

[Marshal Fire, SASS 10064]

I have both Winchester and uberti rifles. Each have some good points and some not so good. The biggest issue with the Winchester is parts.

we subject our guns to some hard work and at some point they both will need attention. Try finding parts for the Winchester, nearly impossible to do. I had to have an extractor made for my Winchester due to the lack of parts. Hopefully the company or the aftermarket providers will fill the need.