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Primer for .45acp.


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My first post and first match Saturday. I shoot Wild Bunch so the question is in regards to the .45 acp. My data for Clays powder calls for the Federal 150 LPP and all I have on hand is the Winchester primer. If I use the Winchester what things do I need to do different? Hodgdon calls for a OAL of 1.200 with a 230 grain over I believe 3.7 grains of Clays. Is the pressure going to be much different to seat the bullet a little longer? Thanks for any help.

 

        

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Just make sure none of the SPP 45acp cases slipped into your batch. Nothing that stinks more is smashing a perfectly good primer on one of those. Especially when the LPP are so much harder to get right now.

 

JEL

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3 minutes ago, John E. Law said:

Just make sure none of the SPP 45acp cases slipped into your batch. Nothing that stinks more is smashing a perfectly good primer on one of those. Especially when the LPP are so much harder to get right now.

 

JEL

I cleaned 300 cases last night after work and cause I worry about this I carefully checked each case. On the other hand I do have plenty of Winchester LPP on hand so after work looks to be another busy evening. I do fear a primer explosion especially since I use a hand primer.

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I shoot WB also and have used whatever primers are the cheapest, all have worked fine. Now days it's whatever is available, all have worked fine. 1911s even with after market "lighter" springs, don't have issues setting off primers. Unless you are loading max pressure / velocity loads, no reason to discriminate magnum or standard primers either. Hand primers are actually the best safest way to prime brass, you're much less likely to set off a primer, and if you keep it pointed away from your face, no chance of injury.

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Seating a bullet farther out in the .45 Auto (aka ACP) cartridge than recommended in the loading manuals can run into a few problems.

 

1 - chamber pressure will be reduced, and thus muzzle velocity is reduced.   This will not be a major problem unless you are running within 5% of the minimum muzzle velocity on your load. This re-emphasizes the need to check the power factor of your Wild Bunch cartridge loads, as in serious matches you can very well be checked.  Power factor is Muzzle Velocity (FPS) times Bullet Weight (grains) divided by 1000.  You must make or exceed 150 Power Factor if tested at matches.

 

2 - longer cartridge overall length than about 1.250" with some bullet shapes can lead to ammo which will feed through the magazine but jam the nose into the rifling on some 1911s,.  That can raise chamber pressures and cause pulling of the bullet out of the case when ejecting an unfired round.

 

Longer than about 1.300" may begin to stick in some magazines and not feed well.  Even longer, and the slide may not pick up the round from the magazine.

 

So, there really is no usual reason to load longer than the loading manual recommendation.    If you are getting failures to feed a round in your 1911 pistol, it will NOT usually be cured by loading the round LONGER.   (Post your failure to feed symptoms here if you are having some.  Perhaps we will be able to help.)

 

good luck, GJ

 

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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15 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Seating a bullet farther out in the .45 Auto (aka ACP) cartridge than recommended in the loading manuals can run into a few problems.

 

1 - chamber pressure will be reduced, and thus muzzle velocity is reduced.   This will not be a major problem unless you are running within 5% of the minimum muzzle velocity on your load. This re-emphasizes the need to check the power factor of your Wild Bunch cartridge loads, as in serious matches you can very well be checked.  Power factor is Muzzle Velocity (FPS) times Bullet Weight (grains) divided by 1000.  You must make or exceed 150 Power Factor if tested at matches.

 

2 - longer cartridge overall length than about 1.250" with some bullet shapes can lead to ammo which will feed through the magazine but jam the nose into the rifling on some 1911s,.  That can raise chamber pressures and cause the pulling of the bullet out of the case when ejecting an unfired round.

 

Longer than about 1.300" may begin to stick in some magazines and not feed well.  Even longer, and the slide may not pick up the round from the magazine.

 

So, there really is no usual reason to load longer than the loading manual recommendation.    If you are getting failures to feed a round in your 1911 pistol, it will NOT usually be cured by loading the round LONGER.   (Post your failure to feed symptoms here if you are having some.  Perhaps we will be able to help.)

 

good luck, GJ

 

Fortunately I have no failure to feed but thanks for the information, your post is very informative. Just getting started in both WB and reloading you shared much needed information, thank you greatly. I just did not have Federal 150 primers on hand and having plenty of Winchester wanted to check to see if I  should make adjustments.  

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Changing brands of primers in the calibers and pressure range we typically use in Cowboy is pretty much a non issue. Since you say you are new to reloading it is wise to ask, well done. And enjoy. There are lots of great cowboys at Powder Springs, ask questions and they will help.

 

Imis 

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On 8/4/2022 at 9:31 AM, Old Irish Shooter said:

I cleaned 300 cases last night after work and cause I worry about this I carefully checked each case. On the other hand I do have plenty of Winchester LPP on hand so after work looks to be another busy evening. I do fear a primer explosion especially since I use a hand primer.

I’ve primed with aLee hand primer since I started in 1979. I have never had a primer go off with them!  On the other hand I doubt if very many who load on a progressive can say that. So don’t worry about detonation I consider a Lee hand primer to be one of the safest ways to prime. Got no primer tube to have a multiple detonation with. I seen pics of them tubes stuck in the reloading room’s ceiling more than once. :rolleyes:

 

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13 hours ago, Bull Skinner said:

I’ve primed with aLee hand primer since I started in 1979. I have never had a primer go off with them!  On the other hand I doubt if very many who load on a progressive can say that. So don’t worry about detonation I consider a Lee hand primer to be one of the safest ways to prime. Got no primer tube to have a multiple detonation with. I seen pics of them tubes stuck in the reloading room’s ceiling more than once. :rolleyes:

 

I have never had a primer detonation on any of my dillon's. I only know two shooters (out of probably 100 that I know personally who reload) who have, both on 650's (one of which I now own), both when forcing a jammed primer, both put the primer weight thing into the ceiling. Neither had a full magazine of primers (think they were both in the 20-30 range) but still damaged (one severely) the protective tube around the primers. Don't really believe a "progressive" issue, more of a WTH where they thinking kind of thing. :blink:

Regards

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

Edited by Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life
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13 hours ago, Bull Skinner said:

I’ve primed with aLee hand primer since I started in 1979. I have never had a primer go off with them!  On the other hand I doubt if very many who load on a progressive can say that. So don’t worry about detonation I consider a Lee hand primer to be one of the safest ways to prime. Got no primer tube to have a multiple detonation with. I seen pics of them tubes stuck in the reloading room’s ceiling more than once. :rolleyes:

 

Ive always loaded with a hand primer and have had no issues. But I did drop a primer while loading the tray, figured I would pick it up later. I forgot. Couple days later I sat down to do some loading and rolled my chair over the live primer....that detonation almost made me detonate in my shorts...don't be lazy, pick up stuff!!!

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1 hour ago, ORNERY OAF said:

Ive always loaded with a hand primer and have had no issues. But I did drop a primer while loading the tray, figured I would pick it up later. I forgot. Couple days later I sat down to do some loading and rolled my chair over the live primer....that detonation almost made me detonate in my shorts...don't be lazy, pick up stuff!!!

I’ve got to the age that if I don’t do it immediately I’ll forget! 
 

GK, I guess people have posted on such mishaps so regularly that it seems like a common occurrence, probably making it seem more common an event than it is. My point was hand primers are not any more susceptible to primer detonation than any other method.

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2 hours ago, Bull Skinner said:

 

I’ve got to the age that if I don’t do it immediately I’ll forget! 
 

GK, I guess people have posted on such mishaps so regularly that it seems like a common occurrence, probably making it seem more common an event than it is. My point was hand primers are not any more susceptible to primer detonation than any other method.

Absolutely agree with this post. :)

Heck just looking at my own example - 2 detonations on progressive equipment - 0 on hand primers, so equipment could be thought of as at least twice as likely to have a problem. BUT, looked at another way there is about a 2% chance (maybe less) of detonation when looking at a larger sample. And in that light, you would have to know how many rounds were primed in a given session, I usually reload when I need 1,000 rounds because that is how my primers and bullets come packaged. The couple guys that I know who use hand primers usually prime about 1 or 2 hundred at a time, so it takes a while to get meaningful numbers to compare as to how often detonations occur.

My point echoes the Lyman 50th "getting started safely Ch2 paragraph 2

"Several aspects required in becoming a safe reloader cannot be purchased at the local gun shop. Most important is a good supply of common sense. Not everyone who drives is qualified to be a auto mechanic, not everyone who shoots is qualified to be a reloader".

Just hazarding a guess but it seems most reloading accidents are similar to most aircraft crashes in that one of the (usually major) factors is the pilot/reloader.

All the best and enjoy your day Mr. Skinner

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

Edited by Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life
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Never had a primer detonate loading.  Been at it with a variety devices since the late '60's. Part of it is the feel and not muscling the machine or running fast without adequate practice and preparation.

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On 8/4/2022 at 5:15 PM, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Seating a bullet farther out in the .45 Auto (aka ACP) cartridge than recommended in the loading manuals can run into a few problems.

 

1 - chamber pressure will be reduced, and thus muzzle velocity is reduced.   This will not be a major problem unless you are running within 5% of the minimum muzzle velocity on your load. This re-emphasizes the need to check the power factor of your Wild Bunch cartridge loads, as in serious matches you can very well be checked.  Power factor is Muzzle Velocity (FPS) times Bullet Weight (grains) divided by 1000.  You must make or exceed 150 Power Factor if tested at matches.

 

2 - longer cartridge overall length than about 1.250" with some bullet shapes can lead to ammo which will feed through the magazine but jam the nose into the rifling on some 1911s,.  That can raise chamber pressures and cause the pulling of the bullet out of the case when ejecting an unfired round.

 

Longer than about 1.300" may begin to stick in some magazines and not feed well.  Even longer, and the slide may not pick up the round from the magazine.

 

So, there really is no usual reason to load longer than the loading manual recommendation.    If you are getting failures to feed a round in your 1911 pistol, it will NOT usually be cured by loading the round LONGER.   (Post your failure to feed symptoms here if you are having some.  Perhaps we will be able to help.)

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

The issue with some data is that they may use a differently shaped cast bullet than yours, and the OAL may not apply for your bullet shape. As GJ stated, the bullet has to clear the rifling when it chambers. I prefer the cast bullets that have a step from the shank to the ogive. Wild Bunch is a power factor sport, so you have to chronograph, which will give you a velocity that you can relate back to pressure. 

 

In addition, when you chronograph a quick check of the Es/Sd will confirm primer compatibility. I use WST and a CCI 300 LP, numbers are decent. 

 

Velocity Av

682.6/686.6

Es

33/19

Sd

13.26/8.77

Shots

5>/5<

 

Because of the PF, Es/Sd are factors. IMO a Sd under 15 is good. 

 

BB

 

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