Subdeacon Joe Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 “There was no belt to hold you. Only your grip on the gun and the sides of the nacelle stood between you and eternity.” The British Royal Aircraft Factory Farman Experimental 2 or F.E.2d aircraft. One of the key aircraft used by the allies to wrest air superiority from the Germans and their Fokker Scourge on the Western Front mid 1915 to early 1916. Note the observer using the rear firing Lewis gun: he must stand on his seat or the rim of his cockpit to operate the machinegun -- without a parachute or even a safety harness. It truly took a real man to take to the skies in those days. American Ace Frederick Libby, who served as an F.E.2b observer in 1916, described using the forward and rear mounted machine guns: “When you stood up to shoot, all of you from the knees up was exposed to the elements. There was no belt to hold you. Only your grip on the gun and the sides of the nacelle stood between you and eternity. Toward the front of the nacelle was a hollow steel rod with a swivel mount to which the gun was anchored. This gun covered a huge field of fire forward. Between the observer and the pilot a second gun was mounted, for firing over the F.E.2b's upper wing to protect the aircraft from rear attack ... Adjusting and shooting this gun required that you stand right up out of the nacelle with your feet on the nacelle coaming. You had nothing to worry about except being blown out of the aircraft by the blast of air or tossed out bodily if the pilot made a wrong move. There were no parachutes and no belts. No wonder they needed observers.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. James H. Callahan Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 I think I would have at least found a length of rope! JHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuteye John SASS#24774 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 Thank you, but NO! That's even worse than the retractable bathtub turrets that were in the wings of the Russian TB3 heavy bomber. Then again, the TB3 had an open cockpit, nose and waist gun positions, too, so I expect frostbite was mandatory for Russian Air Force personnel back in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted August 4, 2022 Author Share Posted August 4, 2022 10 minutes ago, Smuteye John SASS#24774 said: Thank you, but NO! That's even worse than the retractable bathtub turrets that were in the wings of the Russian TB3 heavy bomber. Then again, the TB3 had an open cockpit, nose and waist gun positions, too, so I expect frostbite was mandatory for Russian Air Force personnel back in the day. Paratroopers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 I'll bet there were more than a few tangled chutes, if that was their jump protocol. I recall reading they also jumped with no chutes, at a VERY low level into the snow in the Finnish war. I passed on the training, when I was offered the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 2 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said: Paratroopers. No static lines! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 2 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said: “There was no belt to hold you. Only your grip on the gun and the sides of the nacelle stood between you and eternity.” The British Royal Aircraft Factory Farman Experimental 2 or F.E.2d aircraft. One of the key aircraft used by the allies to wrest air superiority from the Germans and their Fokker Scourge on the Western Front mid 1915 to early 1916. Note the observer using the rear firing Lewis gun: he must stand on his seat or the rim of his cockpit to operate the machinegun -- without a parachute or even a safety harness. It truly took a real man to take to the skies in those days. American Ace Frederick Libby, who served as an F.E.2b observer in 1916, described using the forward and rear mounted machine guns: “When you stood up to shoot, all of you from the knees up was exposed to the elements. There was no belt to hold you. Only your grip on the gun and the sides of the nacelle stood between you and eternity. Toward the front of the nacelle was a hollow steel rod with a swivel mount to which the gun was anchored. This gun covered a huge field of fire forward. Between the observer and the pilot a second gun was mounted, for firing over the F.E.2b's upper wing to protect the aircraft from rear attack ... Adjusting and shooting this gun required that you stand right up out of the nacelle with your feet on the nacelle coaming. You had nothing to worry about except being blown out of the aircraft by the blast of air or tossed out bodily if the pilot made a wrong move. There were no parachutes and no belts. No wonder they needed observers.” Okay, mg#1 in the forward nose. Mg#2 facing to the rear. Mg#3 pointing at observer’s crotch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 there was a fellow in my fathers wing on saipan that decided he needed a longer safty belt so made his own , when his blister was hit he was sucked from the plane on the return trip from japan , he hung out there for a while but survived , dangling on 20 feet of safety line outside a B-29 could not have been any fun , his name was Krantz IIRC i think id still want a safety line tho , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted August 4, 2022 Author Share Posted August 4, 2022 5 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said: No static lines! In Soviet Union, you give static, you lose right of correspondence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuteye John SASS#24774 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 Paratroopers sliding down the wing? I see your paratroopers and raise you with parasite fighters. They'd put one under each wing AND dock another one under the fuselage, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuteye John SASS#24774 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 8 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said: Mg#3 pointing at observer’s crotch? How do you think they got him to stand up and man the rear facing Lewis Gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waxahachie Kid #17017 L Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 I bet those Ruskie paratroops would have loved it if Depends had been available back then. Of course they may have torn them, sliding off that wing, like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 13 hours ago, Smuteye John SASS#24774 said: How do you think they got him to stand up and man the rear facing Lewis Gun? A Fokker on your tail and a Fokker at 12 o’clock. Worst case scenario! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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