Savvy Jack Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 I know maybe a lot of folks have herd or maybe even seen this before. However, there doesn't seem to be much talk of it. Nevertheless, I decided to post a few words about it and see what folks might have to share that is up to date. Winchester appears to have never used the "pin" to hold the firing pin in place while it floats with the bolt in any 73' other than those chambered for the .22 cal. (anyone?) Winchester's 1875 catalog shows the "Firing Pin Retractor" tab or plate rather than a pin. Uberti used a pin rather than a retractor "tab"/"plate" and calls it a "Firing Pin Stop" and is shown as a .078" diameter pin. It is till listed for use at VTI gun parts for the Model 1860 Henry. It looks like the old pins were .058". (anyone?) Uberti replaced the pin design and reverted back to the Winchester original deign with the tab. It is listed as the "Firing Pin Extension Stop" at VTI gun parts A replacement kit is still listed at Numrich https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1141800B?fbclid=IwAR3GwrnGRBBv_zoJu5-a1V9uH5k_PgZBQj92ld-mYIdhd0C6ynbH8zdgwGk which uses the stronger original Winchester tab design. My Uberti imported by Cabelas had the pin. I kept my eye on it (no pun intended) and finally had to replace it. It was on the edge of failure. I purchased the kit from Numrich and certainly feel much better now....especially since I shoot loads more in tune with original black pressures before they were toned down to 13,000cup. Below are some photos of the weak pin and some ways to identify what you have. Winchester's 1875 catalog shows part #74 as the Firing Pin Retractor (shown flipped and upside down) This Firing Pin Retractor design can easily be recognized by the tab located under the front of the link on the left side. (link removed in photo) On the Uberti 73's, the pin can be identified just above the toggle link Guess what, Maroku does or did the same thing. I have yet to check if this has been changed. I forget who's photo this belongs. This is my pin removed from my Uberti 73 for the last time a while back. Notice the gouged pin Here is a close-up of the pin. I finally decided it was time for a new kit. So for those that have no idea....you might better give it a nice inspection. If bent or damaged, it will take some effort to get it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 Good stuff. I have heard of the extension breaking the small retaining pin (hence the redesign) and releasing the extension towards the shooter but have never seen that or talked to one who has actually experienced it. All of my Uberti '73's have newer bolts using the design that you are calling a firing pin extension stop. (the tab and a large pin mounting the links) Still have some of the old pin style (don't know if still available) and they have at least 25-35 K rounds plus unknown dry fires (a lot ) I just pushed the pin out of one with a paper clip and the pin still looks brand new. Regards Gateway Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 Well, not to get real snarky, but this is really old news. The problem surfaced when there were several Out Of Battery Discharges caused by poor gun handling and modifications. The OOBD slammed the action completely open quite violently. The Firing Pin Extension rod sheered thru the retaining pin and exited the frame. Hitting one or two shooters in the cheek quite painfully. Nobody lost an eye. There was huge discussion on the WIRE as to the causes adnausium (sp). Uberti first responded by changing to double the diameter, an altering the geometry of the Hammer so it would stop the Extension Rod from exiting the frame. Not happy with this Uberti then changed the extension rod retention to a wide flat articulated plate riding on the Link/Breach Bolt pivot pin and new recess in the side of the extension rod. Problem solved. Fast Forward to today. Understand Uberti does NOT SUPPORT obsolete parts. You can no longer replace a Breach Bolt retained by the little pins with new one retained by the little pin. You can only purchase a "KIT" That includes the new design Breach Bolt, a new Firing Pin, Firing Pin Return Spring and the new design Extension Rod. Something just north of a Hundred Bucks. Been that way for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 34 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said: Well, not to get real snarky, but this is really old news. Well, this is new news to me. And if I found a worn pin on my gun, I might have just pulled out my micrometer and ordered a compatible pin. Maybe I would have looked for the "right" part. And maybe then I would have found out there was a kit to correct the latent problem, maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted July 31, 2022 Author Share Posted July 31, 2022 54 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said: Uberti first responded by changing to double the diameter, an altering the geometry of the Hammer so it would stop the Extension Rod from exiting the frame. Not happy with this Uberti then changed the extension rod retention to a wide flat articulated plate riding on the Link/Breach Bolt pivot pin and new recess in the side of the extension rod. Problem solved. Probably why Winchester designed it right to begin with. Any idea what the old or new diameter is? Looks like the old diameter is .058" and the newer is .078". Not much difference. I knew it was "old news" but I am sure there are a lot of folks now that may be new and not know about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 Savvy Jack, Well, I use to know. Since I've retired I haven't paid it any real attention. However, I do not recommend just replacing the cross pin. Whether new or old, that tiny cross pin is a failure point. The replacement "kit" may cost a few bucks but it's cheap insurance against using your face to stop an Extension Rod. I also have no earthly idea why Winchester/Miroku copied Uberti rather than the "original" '73. The original '73 Firing Pin with retractor may be more expensive to manufacture but it was a better idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted July 31, 2022 Author Share Posted July 31, 2022 43 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said: Savvy Jack, Well, I use to know. Since I've retired I haven't paid it any real attention. However, I do not recommend just replacing the cross pin. Whether new or old, that tiny cross pin is a failure point. The replacement "kit" may cost a few bucks but it's cheap insurance against using your face to stop an Extension Rod. I also have no earthly idea why Winchester/Miroku copied Uberti rather than the "original" '73. The original '73 Firing Pin with retractor may be more expensive to manufacture but it was a better idea. I just looked it up...figured when I asked, I'd find the answer....I think I agree, I do not recommend replacing the pin, as I sad in my original post....I replaced mine a while back with the kit. I never did check to see if mine was an original or early replacement by Uberti, it was the .058" so I guess it was an original. Yeap, things that make ya go hmmmmmmmmmmm Winchester did it right the first time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted July 31, 2022 Author Share Posted July 31, 2022 Here is a better look at the pin I removed a while back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 6 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said: Well, not to get real snarky, but this is really old news. The problem surfaced when there were several Out Of Battery Discharges caused by poor gun handling and modifications. The OOBD slammed the action completely open quite violently. The Firing Pin Extension rod sheered thru the retaining pin and exited the frame. Hitting one or two shooters in the cheek quite painfully. Nobody lost an eye. There was huge discussion on the WIRE as to the causes adnausium (sp). Uberti first responded by changing to double the diameter, an altering the geometry of the Hammer so it would stop the Extension Rod from exiting the frame. Not happy with this Uberti then changed the extension rod retention to a wide flat articulated plate riding on the Link/Breach Bolt pivot pin and new recess in the side of the extension rod. Problem solved. Fast Forward to today. Understand Uberti does NOT SUPPORT obsolete parts. You can no longer replace a Breach Bolt retained by the little pins with new one retained by the little pin. You can only purchase a "KIT" That includes the new design Breach Bolt, a new Firing Pin, Firing Pin Return Spring and the new design Extension Rod. Something just north of a Hundred Bucks. Been that way for many years. Might be old news to you but I had never heard this. I'll check my 1860 and 1866 this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go West Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 Years ago I broke a rifle just before Winter Range and bought one from a vendor to use in the match. The small cross pin broke on the first stage losing 6 rounds. Jim Bowie replaced the pin with a piece of wire that is still in the gun. I was told the original was too hard/brittle and the wire had some give in it and wouldn't shear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share Posted August 1, 2022 3 hours ago, Go West said: Years ago I broke a rifle just before Winter Range and bought one from a vendor to use in the match. The small cross pin broke on the first stage losing 6 rounds. Jim Bowie replaced the pin with a piece of wire that is still in the gun. I was told the original was too hard/brittle and the wire had some give in it and wouldn't shear. I gotta see photos!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Slim SASS #24733 Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 I have pulled my 7 Ubertis apart many times, and always inspect the pin, and have never seen any of the damage yours has. Never seen one come apart due to a damaged pin. Not saying it can't happen, but if it ain't broke, I don't fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share Posted August 1, 2022 28 minutes ago, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said: I have pulled my 7 Ubertis apart many times, and always inspect the pin, and have never seen any of the damage yours has. Never seen one come apart due to a damaged pin. Not saying it can't happen, but if it ain't broke, I don't fix it. I am still not sure what caused it. I hear different reasons. From what I have found by the internet gurus, some say heavy cycling of the lever, some say heavy loads, out of battery shots, etc. I have not "abused" it in any way so I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 It happened to @Hardtack Henry a few years ago with a '66. His forehead bled a little and he whined about it the rest of the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share Posted August 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Three Foot Johnson said: It happened to @Hardtack Henry a few years ago with a '66. His forehead bled a little and he whined about it the rest of the match. LOL, glad he is okay It is interesting that these are reportedly failing on cowboy action loads that are typically lightly loaded. Could it be cause by being "hard" (fast) on the lever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 3 hours ago, Savvy Jack said: LOL, glad he is okay It is interesting that these are reportedly failing on cowboy action loads that are typically lightly loaded. Could it be cause by being "hard" (fast) on the lever? I would think it's the round count more than anything. Nobody shoots levers like we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share Posted August 2, 2022 14 minutes ago, Michigan Slim said: I would think it's the round count more than anything. Nobody shoots levers like we do. Yeap, retired mine from CAS about 2010. Now I just hunt with it (44-40) after zeroing it in for 265 yards! June 2022 Jan 2022 265 yards 6X scope Me a little short and squatty but, I could be kneeling with a 45-70 pointed back at ya! 11 x 12 notebook paper target as bullseye.....c'mon, it ain't no 45-70!! :-) Yeah, I know, it's being used backwards but it fit better at the moment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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