Kirk James Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 Need clarification again. Rifle is shot at second position. After nine rounds the shooter sets down the rifle down with the action open, leaving the shooters hands, and moves to pick up the shotgun . The TO calls the shooter back saying one more and the shooter returns to the rifle without shooting the shotgun and shoots his last shot at the correct target. WTC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Null N. Void Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 No call. Rifle string was completed before the next shot was fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Law Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 28 minutes ago, Null N. Void said: No call. Rifle string was completed before the next shot was fired. I see and hear this all the time, but if like to know where this comes from. The rules are stated below. I get the caviot that it may be corrected but where did it say what conditions. To me between the SHB and RO1 this is a MSV. If I am wrong please tell me where to find this exception. JEL Shooters Handbook: A rifle is considered SAFE to leave the shooter’s hands in the following condition(s) only(some conditions may be corrected before firing the next firearm): - Empty. - Hammer fully down on an empty chamber or spent round, action closed (restaged for further use). RO1: A live round left in the magazine or on the carrier, as well as an empty round left in the chamber, magazine, or on the carrier of the firearm in which it was loaded, results in a Minor Safety Violation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Quote Long guns will be emptied and discarded with their barrels pointed safely downrange. This condition may be corrected on the clock, prior to the next round being fired. SHB p.16 UNLESS: Quote Staging or discarding a long gun containing a live round in the chamber (once it leaves the shooter's hands). SHB p.22 - SDQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Law Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: SHB p.16 UNLESS: SHB p.22 - SDQ Thanks PWB I've seen it on the shooters pocket flow card, but couldn't find it in the books. I didn't look in the "all firearms part" JEL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Note the "in the chamber part". If the rifle was set down and the round wasn't even partially in the chamber, no call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Who's going to know if the round was in the camber or Not ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 11 minutes ago, Hells Comin said: Who's going to know if the round was in the camber or Not ? If the TO didn't see anything, benefit of the doubt goes to the shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Kurt- Every time I come up and shoot with you the next day there's a WTC ? And No it wasn't Me. Hells Comin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Rock, SASS #44055 Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 We had one at the Georgia state match. Shot nine from rifle and put it down open with 10th round on carrier. However, he did start shooting next firearm. I was spotting and could see it was still on carrier. Then another spotter came up, grabbed the rifle by the stock and tilted it up onto the barrel and proclaimed it’s a SDQ because it’s partially in the chamber. Well it wasn’t until YOU picked it up and caused it to go into the chamber. They finally gave him a MSV because I saw it before someone else touched it. it does say in the SHB on page 14 “No other person other than the competitor may touch the firearm prior to opening the action to show it clear” in the case the lever was closed, it needs to be the same for everything else except a declared broken firearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 59 minutes ago, Big Rock, SASS #44055 said: ... it does say in the SHB on page 14 “No other person other than the competitor may touch the firearm prior to opening the action to show it clear” in the case the lever was closed, it needs to be the same for everything else except a declared broken firearm. Quote Long guns will be emptied and discarded with their barrels pointed safely downrange. This condition may be corrected on the clock, prior to the next round being fired. If the long gun is not discarded empty prior to the next firearm being fired, only the shooter may return to open and/or clear the firearm at the end of the stage under the observation of the TO. SHB p.16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 ... and it sounds like that other spotter deserves a MDQ for "Unsportsmanlike conduct". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Dan Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 11 hours ago, Big Rock, SASS #44055 said: We had one at the Georgia state match. Shot nine from rifle and put it down open with 10th round on carrier. However, he did start shooting next firearm. I was spotting and could see it was still on carrier. Then another spotter came up, grabbed the rifle by the stock and tilted it up onto the barrel and proclaimed it’s a SDQ because it’s partially in the chamber. Well it wasn’t until YOU picked it up and caused it to go into the chamber. They finally gave him a MSV because I saw it before someone else touched it. it does say in the SHB on page 14 “No other person other than the competitor may touch the firearm prior to opening the action to show it clear” in the case the lever was closed, it needs to be the same for everything else except a declared broken firearm. This is a pet peeve of mine. Do not pick up another shooters guns on the firing line. Shooter, pick up your guns and move to the unloading table. Talk to your pards after you clear your guns, not on the firing line while other shooters are waiting for stage reset so they can shoot. In this situation, I would have made a "No Call" because someone else touched the gun "tainting" the evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Vendetta Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 Please excuse me if this had been clarified but I seem to have missed it. If the rifle has a round left in it, on the carrier, and it leaves the shooter hands is it a MSV immediately or only if they shoot another gun after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equanimous Phil Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jay Vendetta said: If the rifle has a round left in it, on the carrier, and it leaves the shooter hands is it a MSV immediately or only if they shoot another gun after? On 7/25/2022 at 2:27 AM, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: Quote Long guns will be emptied and discarded with their barrels pointed safely downrange. This condition may be corrected on the clock, prior to the next round being fired. SHB p.16 If the round is only on the carrier the situation can still be corrected (and the MSV avoided) prior to shooting the next gun. But if the round or part of it is in the chamber the DQ applies instantly after the rifle leaves the shooter's hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 Shooter fires 9 rounds out of a 10 round rifle stage, with no matter what rifle type he is shooting, 1860, 1866, 1873, Marlin or Winchester 1894, 1892 Winchester or clone, Henry Big Boy, Colt pump or clone, etc., can anyone, whether TO or spotters or other members of the posse, 100% tell if when the shooter laid the rifle down there was a round partly in the chamber? Before firing first round of next firearm shooter goes back and fires 10th round, it's a NO CALL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 15 minutes ago, Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 said: Shooter fires 9 rounds out of a 10 round rifle stage, with no matter what rifle type he is shooting, 1860, 1866, 1873, Marlin or Winchester 1894, 1892 Winchester or clone, Henry Big Boy, Colt pump or clone, etc., can anyone, whether TO or spotters or other members of the posse, 100% tell if when the shooter laid the rifle down there was a round partly in the chamber? Before firing first round of next firearm shooter goes back and fires 10th round, it's a NO CALL! If any of the "line ROs" happens to look into the open action of the restaged rifle and observes any part of an unfired round in the chamber, the SDQ should be assessed immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk James Posted July 27, 2022 Author Share Posted July 27, 2022 Hell's Comin-I always enjoy shooting with you. All you have to do is watch and you pick up a better way to shoot. If there was no WTC what would you think about on the 2 hr ride home. This should have been a no call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 Excuse me PWB, but what is a "line RO"? Never in 26 years of SASS have I heard the term "line RO". Have taken RO 1 and RO II twice, and been an RO for all these years at State, Regional, and National events, never heard this "line RO" term used. In the "heat of battle" the RO is watching the shooter " safely" move thru the stage and doesn't have time to stop and look at the shooter's rifle's action when the shooter puts his rifle down horizontally or vertically to see if there is a live round "partly" in the chamber before following the shooter to his next firearm. Nor are the spotters close enough to observe this. They are trying to stay up with the shooter and count hits and misses and possible safeties and procedurals. Only after the shooter finishes the stage, and before he/she, AND ONLY HE/SHE, picks up his/her long guns, can a TO or spotter observe a possible "partly" live round in the chamber. Where under the above circumstances can an official call for anything other than "NO CALL"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 Not PWB, but my understanding is that Line ROs are the TO, Spotters & Scorekeeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 Pardon my use of an "unofficially recognized" term In referring to the Range Officers that are on the stage accompanying the active shooter during the stage engagement (Timer Operator and the three Spotters) to differentiate them from the other ROs and posse members. The OP mentioned that the TO "calls the shooter back" while he (the shooter) was moving toward the shotgun position. The TO would most likely be in a position to LOOK at the rifle to confirm where the unfired 10th round was if he remained at the rifle position waiting for the shooter to come back and complete the shooting string. If you are unable to visualize that scenario (or a spotter close enough to make that observation) I can't add anything further to explain it .... Except this: Quote Watch the Gun – As a TO, to make exact calls and anticipate the shooter’s next move, watch the gun! By looking at the gun, you can identify target engagement, squib loads, warn the shooter if he or she is getting close to breaking the 170°, and stop the shooter if there is a problem. RO1 p.9 and this: Quote - The TO watches the shooter – and the shooters guns- for unsafe acts, correct target engagement, and stage procedures. RO1 p.24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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