Jay Vendetta Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 I just got through cleaning a batch of 44-40 cases and found about 6 or so that came out copper looking rather than brass. I'll attach photos below, but my question is primarily in regards ro safety. Can i/should I shoot these? Secondly what would cause this? I had a couple hundred together when I cleaned them, same conditions for cleaning. A few things to note, since I've started shooting 44-40 I've had people give me brass, so these may not have been loaded or shot by me. Also mostly starline but there is one RP, I assume remington. Also attached is a picture showing some of the other brass cleaned in this batch. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 Did you load up all those rounds yourself, specifically the copper colored brass? The few you show have high primers and the case head on the RP round shows signs of excess pressure. I'm not sure about the color change, but it could be related to the powder charges in those cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Vendetta Posted July 24, 2022 Author Share Posted July 24, 2022 I can't be sure if I loaded those rounds or even fired them, I've had some brass gifted to me and it may have been one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn Through Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 looks like they have been shot with that nasty black powder stuff ,, and looks like someones bolt is missing some metal around fire pin hole dont worry about it they are fine if wet tumbled probably would not be able to notice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Vendetta Posted July 24, 2022 Author Share Posted July 24, 2022 They were wet tumbled along with everything else I cleaned and were the only ones to come out like this. All the brass I shot personally was shot with black powder, and seemed to clean up fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 Since you cleaned it all and some of those are still that color, then I'm thinking some of the zinc may have been leached out of them by whatever someone soaked them in previously. Whether or not they are safe to shoot in that case, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn Through Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 ok sorry i recon i stand corrected, have a good day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Vendetta Posted July 24, 2022 Author Share Posted July 24, 2022 Just now, Burn Through said: ok sorry i recon i stand corrected, have a good day All good, appreciate the attempt to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn Through Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 any chance you had ni shells in there ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Vendetta Posted July 24, 2022 Author Share Posted July 24, 2022 Not that I can recall, I don't think I've seen nickel 44-40 in person before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 Might be an idea to call Starline and ask them, and/or send them a photo. They'll probably know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Vendetta Posted July 24, 2022 Author Share Posted July 24, 2022 Just now, Tex Jones, SASS 2263 said: Might be an idea to call Starline and ask them, and/or send them a photo. They'll probably know. Thats a good idea, didn't consider it before. I think I'll send them an email and see if they have a thought on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Creek,5759 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 That is really strange. I had the same thing happen to a couple of 44-40, a couple of weeks ago. I reloaded them. I also shoot Black Powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 What was the solution you cleaned with? The 2 stars are Starline. I've seen brass do that when shot with fake black powder. I'd run'em..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Vendetta Posted July 25, 2022 Author Share Posted July 25, 2022 23 minutes ago, Bailey Creek,5759 said: That is really strange. I had the same thing happen to a couple of 44-40, a couple of weeks ago. I reloaded them. I also shoot Black Powder. They shot fine after that? Notice any issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Creek,5759 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Shoot fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Vendetta Posted July 25, 2022 Author Share Posted July 25, 2022 13 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: What was the solution you cleaned with? The 2 stars are Starline. I've seen brass do that when shot with fake black powder. I'd run'em..... I've always used lemi-shine and dish soap and never had any issues with smokeless, substitute(pyrodex), or real black. These cases, if shot by me would have been real black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Creek,5759 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 That is what i use also. I shoot Real Black Powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 36 minutes ago, Jay Vendetta said: I've always used lemi-shine and dish soap and never had any issues with smokeless, substitute(pyrodex), or real black. These cases, if shot by me would have been real black. Back off on the Lemi-Shine some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Vendetta Posted July 25, 2022 Author Share Posted July 25, 2022 Just now, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Back off on the Lemi-Shine some. I can try that, not sure that explains the situation though. Only 6ish out of a couple hundred in the same batch with the same amount of lemi-shine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Jay Vendetta said: I can try that, not sure that explains the situation though. Only 6ish out of a couple hundred in the same batch with the same amount of lemi-shine. Difference in the case alloy. I've seen LS do the copper color before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn Through Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 i say send them to me ha ha and a couple hundred of the others I will shoot them and let you know in about 3 years how they did ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Vendetta Posted July 25, 2022 Author Share Posted July 25, 2022 Just now, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Difference in the case alloy. I've seen LS do the copper color before. Fair enough, I'll back off and see if I have better results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn Through Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 I find most of the 45s in my jug because they are a diff color than my 44-40s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Just now, Jay Vendetta said: Fair enough, I'll back off and see if I have better results. Like to hear the results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Vendetta Posted July 25, 2022 Author Share Posted July 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Burn Through said: i say send them to me ha ha and a couple hundred of the others I will shoot them and let you know in about 3 years how they did ha ha I appreciate your selfless offer but I think I'll go ahead and keep them. I'll see about updating the thread in a couple months when I shoot palerider again and clean my next batch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 I've had cases do that when using the sonic cleaner and Hornady "One Shot" cleaner... AND using the heat cycle multiple times. I'd cut back on the lemi-shine and the length of time I run them in the tumbler. Clean brass needn't be completely stain-free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Vendetta Posted July 25, 2022 Author Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Griff said: I've had cases do that when using the sonic cleaner and Hornady "One Shot" cleaner... AND using the heat cycle multiple times. I'd cut back on the lemi-shine and the length of time I run them in the tumbler. Clean brass needn't be completely stain-free. Seems to be the consensus, hard to resist shiny brass, but I'll give it a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 LemiShine is mostly sulfamic acid crystals. This "grout cleaner" dissolves most tarnish on brass, the copper and zinc that was oxidized or corroded (in the tarnish layer) goes into solution. The copper immediately plates back onto the rest of the brass case, depositing as a pink color usually. It's not going to cause any damage. Shoot it. LemiShine is used in dishwashers to remove the carbonates left behind by hard water. Works well there, too. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Vendetta Posted July 25, 2022 Author Share Posted July 25, 2022 Just now, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said: LemiShine is mostly sul;famic acid crystals. This dissolves most tarnish on brass, the copper and zinc that was oxidized or corroded (in the tarnish layer) goes into solution. The copper immediately plates back onto the rest of the brass case, depositing as a pink color usually. It's not going to cause any damage. Shoot it. good luck, GJ Appreciate that, I'll load them up and try them out in the pistols so that if they fail in some way it doesn't affect as much as in the rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 They won't fail. I get the same plating with my 44-40 brass in which I shoot only BP. But I normally clean it with just soapy water. That is all that really is needed unless you let the brass sit and corrode for weeks. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 I'll be the odd man out and say scrap them. I bought a bunch of old (more than 10 years) 10X brand BP shells in 44-40 and .357. Of the .357s, about 90% of the cases split length wise mid point of the case. Noticed the splits after wet tumbling. Every case was that bright copper color inside. The 44-40 that were shot in my Uberti 1860 Henry about one in every 10 to 20 would separate at the case neck. Requiring the broken neck to be removed with tools. When the cases were cleaned and inspected the inside of the case was that bright copper color. 44-40 fired in the 1866 did not separate at the case neck but after wet tumbling the insides were bright copper color and I found several cases with cracks in the shoulder. Another shooter bough the 10X 45 Colt BP rounds of he same vintage and also experienced about 90% of the cases splitting length wise. All were bright copper color inside. They may be fine but being as you don't know the history of these cases and it is only a few why take the chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Vendetta Posted July 25, 2022 Author Share Posted July 25, 2022 Appreciate your insight Sedalia, I will restrict them to pistol brass, just incase. After all a split in the pistol won't jam me up like it would in the rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said: I'll be the odd man out and say scrap them. I bought a bunch of old (more than 10 years) 10X brand BP shells in 44-40 and .357. Of the .357s, about 90% of the cases split length wise mid point of the case. Noticed the splits after wet tumbling. Every case was that bright copper color inside. The 44-40 that were shot in my Uberti 1860 Henry about one in every 10 to 20 would separate at the case neck. Requiring the broken neck to be removed with tools. When the cases were cleaned and inspected the inside of the case was that bright copper color. 44-40 fired in the 1866 did not separate at the case neck but after wet tumbling the insides were bright copper color and I found several cases with cracks in the shoulder. Another shooter bough the 10X 45 Colt BP rounds of he same vintage and also experienced about 90% of the cases splitting length wise. All were bright copper color inside. They may be fine but being as you don't know the history of these cases and it is only a few why take the chance? Dave, since that ammo was loaded with APP (I think that's what they used), and the old paper Pinnacle (same thing) shotshells I recently had split apart, I'm wondering if there could be some corrosive issues with that powder loaded and stored long term? Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 I make it a point to NOT shoot anyone else's black or sub filled brass. You just never know how well they cleaned and cared for their brass and all the corrosion that can come from mistreating the cases. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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