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Another reason to hate my home state.


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The rules about Glocks in Massachusetts are very confusing.  I've heard so many contradictory statements that it makes my head spin.  I asked one dealer about the ones on the approved list, and was told, yeah, they are on that list, but not on the attorney general's list, which is a separate set of rules.  That's where things get REAL mixed up.   I'm not even gonna try to explain it cuz it makes no sense to me. 

 

Curiously, the M17 is Mass Compliant, as long as it's the model that comes with 2 ten round magazines.   But the high cap mags DO fit and work in the gun.

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10 hours ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

 

Not that simple.  MA does not ban all Glocks, only those that do not meet the state's safety standards.  Here's a link (https://www.mass.gov/doc/approved-firearms-roster-9/download) to State's Approved Firearms Roster; lots of models of Glocks here (but none with mag capacities above 10).  

 

LL

 There is an ample supply on the used market in Mass. pre ban etc.  

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9 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

We live in a system in which the laws are to byzantine for a lay person to understand readily, by design.  L

 

Thomas Jefferson wrote that no law should be longer than a single page nor written so that it is not easily understandable by the common man!

 

Boy has that ship sailed!

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17 hours ago, Texas Jack Black said:

 IT  Is a states rights issue.  and is covered in the Constitution.

i get that and im all for states rights but it is covered in the amendments constitutionally and should be universal across the country , the states have the rights over everything that is not specifically called out , the second does not say the states habve the right to control , 

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8 hours ago, watab kid said:

i get that and im all for states rights but it is covered in the amendments constitutionally and should be universal across the country , the states have the rights over everything that is not specifically called out , the second does not say the states habve the right to control , 

Article IV, Section 1

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
 

Therefore, a CCW license issued in, say, West Virginia, should be considered valid in Massachusetts, California, New York and New Jersey.

Just like a drivers license is.  

At least, that's how I would understand it.

 

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52 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

Article IV, Section 1

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
 

Therefore, a CCW license issued in, say, West Virginia, should be considered valid in Massachusetts, California, New York and New Jersey.

Just like a drivers license is.  

At least, that's how I would understand it.

 

Your understanding is very straightforward, logical and interprets the statement as it was clearly meant to be interpreted at the time. 

 

Therefore under our current jurisprudence you're almost certainly 180 degree from how it is currently interpreted.

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Remember, they (leadership and too many followers) are leftists, so they hate the actual constitution except for when they can use it to achieve their communist/fascist plans.

 

The despise and distrust personal freedom.

 

They have begun to finally admit their hatred of the constitution or any constitutional court decisions.

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33 minutes ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said:

Remember, they (leadership and too many followers) are leftists, so they hate the actual constitution except ...

 

That became very apparent when they started the narrative that Thomas Jefferson was bad, and his monument should be removed from D.C.. First vilify the man and then you can vilify what he stood for.

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ive always thought we would be one of the countries that preserved its heritage [good and bad] like some do , never thought we could devolve to the likes of those that bulldose theirs , but the i believe in heritage unlike those hateful folks that want to tear everything down , 

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I use to joke that the only places that still believed in communism where China, Cuba, North Korea and Massachusetts.  Unfortunately it has spread to several more states.

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26 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

I use to joke that the only places that still believed in communism where China, Cuba, North Korea and Massachusetts.  Unfortunately it has spread to several more states.

 

Well, MA is not a communist state.  It is over-regulated, and many of the controlling laws and regulations are focused on substituting a politician's judgment for the citizen's own freedom of choice.  These decisions, and the politicians that make them, are not attempts to emulate Communism; they are almost always selfish acts, intended to convince voters that the government is "taking care" of them, or protecting them from something scary.  It depends on voters being willing to relinquish their right to act as an independent person, in exchange for being relieved of the burden of making decisions and carrying the responsibility for the results.  At its core, it is citizen laziness.

 

As much as the Ds in MA have tried to regulate guns out of existence, they have failed.   I can still buy and own a wide range of SASS guns, with little regulatory effect.  I wish I could buy Colts, but that is just a matter of taste, and will not inhibit my ability to participate in the Game.  There are work-arounds for restrictions on reloading supplies, and my shelves are still full.

 

I cannot buy any AR-15 or AK derivatives; their sale is now banned (like it was during the "Assault Weapons" ban).  But I may have one in the safe, and there are still many alternatives not affected by the current MA ban.  For instance, I can still buy a Tavor X95 in 5.56, a Mini 14 (with a ten round magazine) or a M1A, among other long arms.  I can buy most commercially available shotguns.  I'm not happy about the current ban, and if the NRA or the FPC would just get involved in MA, I believe the ban is constitutionally vulnerable and would fall to a court challenge.  But I am still adequately armed.  No  socialist has appeared at my door trying to take my guns.

 

There is no doubt that we need to be vigilant and active; but the sky is not falling.

 

LL

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4 hours ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

cannot buy any AR-15 or AK derivatives; their sale is now banned (like it was during the "Assault Weapons" ban

The assault weapons ban didn't prevent AR-15 sales.

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On 7/24/2022 at 10:01 AM, Mister Badly said:

I pray for an end to selfishness, ignorance, greed, career politicians, lobbying, and political action committees. And for fewer left pistol misses. 

That’s about as likely to happen as mosquitoes and hemorrhoids being a thing of the past, but one can dream!

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39 minutes ago, Dirty Dan Dawkins said:

That’s about as likely to happen as mosquitoes and hemorrhoids being a thing of the past, but one can dream!

I'm hoping he decides to answer the easy one.

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18 hours ago, Mister Badly said:

The assault weapons ban didn't prevent AR-15 sales.

 

Well, there's the rub.

As you know, the gun makers went and redesigned the guns to make them legal under the ban.   (Like cutting of bayonet lugs, or not having flash hiders,)  Those guns were sold here, legally, for years.   Then a year or two ago, the AG decided that they were "functionally equivalent" to the banned guns, and said that they could no longer be sold here.

Sadly, you can say that she has a point, but it doesn't change the fact that, on a personal whim, she suddenly changed the way the law was interpreted and understood for many years based on her personal opinion.

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50 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

Well, there's the rub.

As you know, the gun makers went and redesigned the guns to make them legal under the ban.   (Like cutting of bayonet lugs, or not having flash hiders,)  Those guns were sold here, legally, for years.   Then a year or two ago, the AG decided that they were "functionally equivalent" to the banned guns, and said that they could no longer be sold here.

Sadly, you can say that she has a point, but it doesn't change the fact that, on a personal whim, she suddenly changed the way the law was interpreted and understood for many years based on her personal opinion.

 True, But there are still AR platforms  that are available along with 30 round mags.

 

Best wishes and hope you are feeling better.

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In the coming years many of the states' restrictions on firearms & accessories are likely to fall when plaintiffs sue in Federal court now that NYSRPA v Bruen is the standard by which 2A cases must judged.  The to be constitutional the regulation must have historical, 1791 through Reconstruction and the test must be single step not the two step process Federal Courts have been using post Heller.  AWB's toast, magazine capacity limits toast, safe gun laws toast, ammo sales background checks toast, 50 caliber metallic cartridge rifle bans toast, good moral character requirement for carry permits, FOID cards toast, etc.  Unlike CC licenses where the ATF waves NICS check for firearms transfers FOID cards are only an infringement of the people's right to keep arms.

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You might try ordering from this shop, https://www.logcabinshop.com/, they are local to me in OH. They carry a full line of nitro cards, wads and over shot. I've purchased from them several time. PM me and maybe I can help you somehow.

 

Boonie

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19 minutes ago, Boonie Young said:

You might try ordering from this shop, https://www.logcabinshop.com/, they are local to me in OH. They carry a full line of nitro cards, wads and over shot. I've purchased from them several time. PM me and maybe I can help you somehow.

 

Boonie

 

Ordered some more from here to see if it would work.   It did!   Yay!

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On 7/27/2022 at 4:00 PM, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

 

Well, MA is not a communist state.  It is over-regulated, and many of the controlling laws and regulations are focused on substituting a politician's judgment for the citizen's own freedom of choice.  These decisions, and the politicians that make them, are not attempts to emulate Communism; they are almost always selfish acts, intended to convince voters that the government is "taking care" of them, or protecting them from something scary.  It depends on voters being willing to relinquish their right to act as an independent person, in exchange for being relieved of the burden of making decisions and carrying the responsibility for the results.  At its core, it is citizen laziness.

 

As much as the Ds in MA have tried to regulate guns out of existence, they have failed.   I can still buy and own a wide range of SASS guns, with little regulatory effect.  I wish I could buy Colts, but that is just a matter of taste, and will not inhibit my ability to participate in the Game.  There are work-arounds for restrictions on reloading supplies, and my shelves are still full.

 

I cannot buy any AR-15 or AK derivatives; their sale is now banned (like it was during the "Assault Weapons" ban).  But I may have one in the safe, and there are still many alternatives not affected by the current MA ban.  For instance, I can still buy a Tavor X95 in 5.56, a Mini 14 (with a ten round magazine) or a M1A, among other long arms.  I can buy most commercially available shotguns.  I'm not happy about the current ban, and if the NRA or the FPC would just get involved in MA, I believe the ban is constitutionally vulnerable and would fall to a court challenge.  But I am still adequately armed.  No  socialist has appeared at my door trying to take my guns.

 

There is no doubt that we need to be vigilant and active; but the sky is not falling.

 

LL

funny , that sounds a lot like communism to me , im not pointing a single finger here - i can point all five without thinking much and all ten after reflection , i live in one myself at this point , it galls me to hear socialists claim they dont want communism when thats exactly what they cram down folks throats - we are supposed to be free people able to do for ourselves , without government interference as long as we dont infringe on others rights , which is exactly what these folks are doing , 

 

but ill give you that it is lazy people that are voting this into existance , too many today want the handout that would have been rejected in the height of the depression , we actually may get to see that come back round on the geetar real soon if this continues , makes one sad , 

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7 hours ago, watab kid said:

funny , that sounds a lot like communism to me , im not pointing a single finger here - i can point all five without thinking much and all ten after reflection , i live in one myself at this point , it galls me to hear socialists claim they dont want communism when thats exactly what they cram down folks throats - we are supposed to be free people able to do for ourselves , without government interference as long as we dont infringe on others rights , which is exactly what these folks are doing , 

 

but ill give you that it is lazy people that are voting this into existance , too many today want the handout that would have been rejected in the height of the depression , we actually may get to see that come back round on the geetar real soon if this continues , makes one sad , 

Communism: a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.

 

As @Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said, MA is not 'communist'.  Communism is a bad thing.  What MA is doing is a bad thing, but they aren't the same bad thing.

 

Authoritarian: favoring blind submission to authority. Favoring a concentration of power in a leader or elite not constitutionally responsible to the people.

 

Majoritarianism:  a political philosophy that argues that majority decision making is intrinsically democratic and that any restriction on majority decision making is intrinsically undemocratic.

 

MA's ruling political philosophy is a blend of those two belief systems.  The key is that neither allows for intrinsic rights that can't be infringed ie 'Bill of Rights.'

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 I find NO state where gun rights are not infringed upon to some degree. The courts long ago stated that ALL our rights are limited. 

 Work within the system 

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39 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said:

 I find NO state where gun rights are not infringed upon to some degree. The courts long ago stated that ALL our rights are limited. 

 Work within the system 

No.
 

Vote the authoritarians out and change the system.

 

We need to stop using the language of the left. There is no such thing as ‘gun’ rights, there are civil rights and the 2nd amendment codifies one of them. There is also no such thing as ‘gun’ violence. Violence is perpetrated by human beings with agency, not inanimate objects.

 

Using terms like that, or reproductive rights, the right to choose, ad nauseam allows the other side to frame the debate in their favor.

 

Call it what it is. Authoritarianism, Civil rights, the right to kill the unborn. Make them own their positions without subterfuge.

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4 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

No.
 

Vote the authoritarians out and change the system.

 

We need to stop using the language of the left. There is no such thing as ‘gun’ rights, there are civil rights and the 2nd amendment codifies one of them. There is also no such thing as ‘gun’ violence. Violence is perpetrated by human beings with agency, not inanimate objects.

 

Using terms like that, or reproductive rights, the right to choose, ad nauseam allows the other side to frame the debate in their favor.

 

Call it what it is. Authoritarianism, Civil rights, the right to kill the unborn. Make them own their positions without subterfuge.

 

Like how our RINO governor just signed a bill protecting infanticide and genital self mutilation?

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5 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

No.
 

Vote the authoritarians out and change the system.

 

We need to stop using the language of the left. There is no such thing as ‘gun’ rights, there are civil rights and the 2nd amendment codifies one of them. There is also no such thing as ‘gun’ violence. Violence is perpetrated by human beings with agency, not inanimate objects.

 

Using terms like that, or reproductive rights, the right to choose, ad nauseam allows the other side to frame the debate in their favor.

 

Call it what it is. Authoritarianism, Civil rights, the right to kill the unborn. Make them own their positions without subterfuge.

 When I said work within the system I mean follow the constitution not just the BILL OF RIGHTS. The court has spoken and I work within that system.

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all great points - i use the term communism in the frame of what we have come to know it as with china/russia/viet nam/korea and to a certain degree south american countries - oh and cuba , call it what you want , nit pic the definition , we all know what it is and what it does , it never pats the poor accordingly with their contribution to society and it always works out swell for those connected few 

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On 7/24/2022 at 5:55 PM, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

 

Most Rugers but none of the limited production models (even if they are visually similar, if the model number is different from those tested.  So no Davidsons, Talo, or the like).  No Pietta or Uberti cartridge revolvers.  No Colt SAA (unless you can find one that was owned in MA before the imposition of the restrictions in 1993 - grandfathered).  You can buy a limited number of Colt 1911s, if they are among those which have been designated as "target" models.  You can also get various 1911 clones, including some Springfield, Para, Ruger, Remington and Sig models.  .

Basically, you need to do your homework before you shop.  The State makes it as difficult as they can.

 

LL

No Ubertis even with the new hammer safety thingy?? 

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On 7/30/2022 at 2:59 PM, Captain Bill Burt said:

We need to stop using the language of the left. There is no such thing as ‘gun’ rights, there are civil rights and the 2nd amendment codifies one of them. There is also no such thing as ‘gun’ violence. Violence is perpetrated by human beings with agency, not inanimate objects.

 

I realized this when all of a sudden all of the mainstream started using terminalogy like SUV hit the pedestrian, SUV hit the tree, SUV collisions, death cause by SUV, etc. Everything was the car's fault, not the driver, weather, etc.

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