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Anybody experienced with a BAR?


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Watching Kelly's Heroes. The ambush of the German patrol by the mine field.

 

One of the Americans is using a BAR without a bipod. And he's holding it sideways.

 

This movie was made long before the ghetto habit of turning the gun sideways to shoot it, so I'm wondering if possibly that would actually make it more controllable?

 

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I recall in the television series, "Combat" the BAR man often fired it that way.  Dad (USMC 1940 - 1947) said that was a bunch of hooey.  Dad was also somewhat less than enamored of the BAR.  Too heavy for the firepower it provided.

 

An interesting little video

 

 

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I trained with.one in ITR in.the Marine Corps. IMHO, it was too heavy.

 I liked the Thompson.but it was heavy too

 I loved my TE 1911 in.a.shoulder holster. I still love my 1911.but it's a Les Baer

 

 

 

 

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I shot one once when a cowboy shooter brought his for us to shoot after. Awesome weapon, it tends to get away from you if you don’t keep it steady. First time I shot one. Loved it!

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I fired a BAR at a machine gun shoot, great weapon for 1918, but by WWII it was starting to show it's age due to weight, magazine capacity and lack of being able to change barrels.

 

I don't claim to be experienced, but, in theory, holding the BAR in the manner shown in the screenshot would cause the recoil to go sideways instead of up.  So if I remember the scene correctly, he would have raked the German truck carrying the infantry from front to back.

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4 hours ago, Rip Snorter said:

There was a special belt with a cup to hold the butt for walking fire from the hip.  A friend of my folks still had his from the war.

IMHO, not sure that belt cup was a good idea. You needed to stand square to your target (also known as the enemy)to use it;  pretty sure they were firing back and hence you were a bigger center mass target. 

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9 minutes ago, Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme said:

IMHO, not sure that belt cup was a good idea. You needed to stand square to your target (also known as the enemy)to use it;  pretty sure they were firing back and hence you were a bigger center mass target. 

Dunno either, he was in some sort of elite unit, possibly Marine Raiders, can't recall.  Served, decorated, and came home alive & well.

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The B.A.R. and a Gatling are on my list, if I ever win the Powerball.

 

Love both of those. :D

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1 hour ago, Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme said:

IMHO, not sure that belt cup was a good idea. You needed to stand square to your target (also known as the enemy)to use it;  pretty sure they were firing back and hence you were a bigger center mass target. 

The cup was used while assaulting an enemy position, not just standing. It is much better than trying to hold the 20+pound booger at the hip. When firing and walking toward the enemy you’re going to be squared to the front anyway, unless you’re a Ninja maybe.
The rifle is fired from the shoulder or bipod the rest of the time.
It doesn’t really rise much like a Thompson or even an M2 carbine because it is so dang heavy.

That’s the reason the full auto M14 at half the weight was a stupid idea.

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2 hours ago, Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme said:

IMHO, not sure that belt cup was a good idea. You needed to stand square to your target (also known as the enemy)to use it;  pretty sure they were firing back and hence you were a bigger center mass target. 

See the video I posted.  It has a section about that cup for "walking fire."

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2 hours ago, Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme said:

IMHO, not sure that belt cup was a good idea. You needed to stand square to your target (also known as the enemy)to use it;  pretty sure they were firing back and hence you were a bigger center mass target. 

It was for walking fire when you were assaulting a position rather than just holding it at the hip

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10 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

It was for walking fire when you were assaulting a position rather than just holding it at the hip

You'd still be walking square to the enemy's fire, so you'd best hope nobody from the bad guys are further down range. I'm more of a Wild Bill, turn slightly to the side in order to decrease profile, kinda guy.

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10 minutes ago, Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme said:

You'd still be walking square to the enemy's fire, so you'd best hope nobody from the bad guys are further down range. I'm more of a Wild Bill, turn slightly to the side in order to decrease profile, kinda guy.

Sometimes you have to get on line and hope for the best. At The 18minute mark in this video you’ll see a 101st Abn unit get out of their defensive positions to assault the NVA. Ya got do what ya gotta do.

 

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We used the BAR in filming the Warrior series, "Alamo Raider" episode. It was very steady on the ground with bipod and excellent accuracy. We destroyed a block wall. On the shoulder it was bad, but the hip cup pushed you backwards so it wasn't used in the script.

As to sideway, Jack Hogan was asked about this and he replied he received training from a WW2 Vet and show adviser and was told when he was receiving return fire, to give cover fire in return and expose less of your self use it sideway while laying flat and reloads can be done while Bar is on your stomach easier, loading magazine sideways..

A BAR was also used for suppress fire against the enemy while the squad did it job to move up and in against the enemy.

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1 hour ago, Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme said:

You'd still be walking square to the enemy's fire, so you'd best hope nobody from the bad guys are further down range. I'm more of a Wild Bill, turn slightly to the side in order to decrease profile, kinda guy.

If you think about human anatomy, the old duelist side position does make a narrower target, but, if hit, the bullet will most often pass through something important.  Full face, there are a variety of areas where a through and through probably won't kill or maim.   Remember also, the BAR man advancing has the supporting fire from the rest of his unit. No free lunch for the enemy.

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I had the good fotune to be trained with the BAR when I was in High School and in Summer Camp in College.  We fired it using a bipod while being in a fox hole.  I do not recall there being a massive amount of recoil due to the buffer system in the stock and we shot it in three round bursts - takes a bit of practice..   We used it as a punishment for wise guys (hauling around 21 lbs loaded is not great fun in 100 Plus heat in Kansas during the summer).  I had the misfortune of carrying it quite a bit. - that and the 1919 A4. UGH. - which did not have a handle and the sling was tied so that it hurt no matter what you did.  AND in Kansas it rusted like mad and you had to fiddle with preservation of the metal continually.  But the BAR was a real dilly to fire - I loved it.

 

STL Suomi

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23 hours ago, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said:

I trained with.one in ITR in.the Marine Corps. IMHO, it was too heavy.

 I liked the Thompson.but it was heavy too

 I loved my TE 1911 in.a.shoulder holster. I still love my 1911.but it's a Les Baer

 

 

 

 

BAR is too heavy and too big

 

Thompsons are heavy but I love the things anyway and I became used to the weight.

 

My Rock Island 1911 is my everyday gun.

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My Uncle Ron (USMC retired) carried one at the Chosen Res.  He loved it.  He said that when using short bursts and feathering the trigger, you can hit targets 1000 yards away. He called his a sniper rifle.  But, he also said use the bipod and go prone.  

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