Short stroke a good idea just for plinking?

[Tallboy]

Hello,

 

I do apologize if this isn't the right place for this question. While I'm not directly a member of CAS, the overall appeal of plinking with historic guns I hope is close enough that my question is OK. This seems like the perfect audience to answer

 

I just bought a Uberti 1873 in .357, and I'm having it tuned by Long Hunter with the Gunfighter Action package (the better one).

 

I mainly want to use this lever gun at the range, shooting metal targets, plinking, and ultimately as a pure 100% fun gun. I intend to occasionally shoot quickly but no faster than a relaxed quick pace. I do NOT intend to be trying to do CAS rapid fire 10 rounds in 3 seconds.

 

The one part of the upgrade I'm still contemplating is adding the short stroke kit. I've never used one, and I have no place to try one so I'm trying to make this decision from online/videos/advice alone.

 

My concern is that somehow the short stroke kit will take away from the amazing historic satisfying motion of the lever action. Part of the fun for me, just like a manual transmission, is the very tactile, satisfying, mechanical, buttery, energetic movement, with the shell casing flying out. Its therapeutic almost like ASMR.

 

I have no idea if a short stroke kid trades fun-factor for functional speed so to speak (or maybe INCREASES fun factor?). If the whole goal of a short stroke kit is to shoot insanely fast, perhaps under normal non-rapid-fire, normal shooting conditions it makes the gun "less fun" if that makes sense.

 

I don't want to get it in the gun and then have it feel too restricted or something, or like my lever pull is now 'short changed'. Maybe this concern is 100% false though, and I should get it. What do you think?

 

Edit: money is not a factor

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

A short stroke kit reduces leverage, requiring more force to move the lever. For plinking I think it would be a waste of money, especially if you like things "like they were in the old days". I have them in my faster rifles, but I won't put one on my Henry that use just for fun.

[Last Call Saul]

if you don't plan to shoot it "competition fast", I would say short stroking is not going to do a thing... money that could be spent somewhere else. I don't think it has any detirmental effect, it's just something that you don't need and will never appreciate

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

1 minute ago, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said:

A short stroke kit reduces leverage, requiring more force to move the lever. For plinking I think it would be a waste of money, especially if you like things "like they were in the old days". I have them in my faster rifles, but I won't put one on my Henry that use just for fun.

+1

[Anvil Al #59168]

For what you are doing.

I would not spend the money for that. 

 

[Tallboy]

14 minutes ago, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said:

A short stroke kit reduces leverage, requiring more force to move the lever. For plinking I think it would be a waste of money, especially if you like things "like they were in the old days". I have them in my faster rifles, but I won't put one on my Henry that use just for fun.

Awesome, and thanks to everyone that answered so far. This is great info.

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

First, the secret to a well done Short Stroke is an even better Action Job and polishing....

In other words the short stroke will never be top of the line if you don't do the action work.... but the action work can make the gun much more enjoyable to shoot and handle without the short stroke.

One of my first rifles was a '66 carbine in 38 special. Because I got it for a great price I did my own action work on it. Polished up everything that even thought about being rough and very slowly (as a first timer) learned how things worked and more importantly why they were the way they were. Ran great until I eventually moved up to a PGW short rifle and learned the basics of a short stroked rifle. Sold the carbine to someone who fell in love with "the very tactile, satisfying, mechanical, buttery, energetic movement, with the shell casing flying out" That person (to my knowledge) never needed or wanted a short stroke, being perfectly happy with a well running stock gun.

YMMV

Regards

   

Gateway Kid

[El Catorce]

I wouldn’t do neither an action job nor a short stroke if I wasn’t going to shoot in matches… however, since you’re considering having a race gun made up by long hunter, consider shooting a match! Just one! You will already have arguably the most expensive part of our kit!… well, at least to start off… you can find a really nice pair of pistols in the same caliber as your rifle for about $1,000 each (~$2,000 for a pair of rugers is a decent budget)… and 800 for a shotgun will go a long way!… but consider yourself warned… this cosa nostra can be very addictive and all consuming.. you’re gonna love it and all of a sudden one set of two revolvers, a rifle and a shotgun (your main match guns) …one set just wont feel complete without a back up set… then a set in a different caliber… then back up options for that caliber too… then long range, plainsman and wild bunch guns will be needed (not in any particular order) …not to mention that somewhere along the previously mentioned purchases you’ll find yourself knee deep in reloading equipment and a closet full of cowboy outfits for monthly matches and annual match banquets … oh, did i mention the nagging feeling about retiring early, purchasing an RV and trying to find a way to shoot cowboy full time?… yeah this thing of ours is all consuming if you let it… and only the luckiest of us can let it consume us! Good luck and stay strong! 

[Rafe Conager SASS #56958]

I used my stock  uberti  73 for 10 years before I even had an action job, gained  minimal speed, what I did gain was smoother  cycling so that the rifle stayed on target due to less force.  I did get a short stroke kit put in a few years ago and gained a  little time  but I'm a middle of the pack shooter. If I wasn't  competing I'd spend the money on ammo.

Rafe 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

I agree with the others.  Do get the action job, or at least change the springs.  Ubertis are oversprung from the factory and lightening the springs, which is the most important part of an action job, will make the gun much smoother and more pleasant to use.

[Totes Magoats]

2 hours ago, Tallboy said:

Edit: money is not a factor

 

I smooth running, slicked up, and short stroked '73 is sure fun to shoot.  

 

But then again, I got heated seats in my truck and I live in South Texas...

 

Totes

[Tyrel Cody]

I wouldn't get the short stroke in your case.

 

I WILL encourage you to bring your rifle to a match and join the fun

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

ABSOLUTELY get the short stroke.

ABSOLUTELY

ABSOLUTELY

 

The mechanical operation of a tuned and short stroked rifle has a much more satisfying "feel" than the stock rifle.

 

After the rifle is returned to you - the machine will be correctly timed, the parts smoothed and the action will cycle with a sewing machine like "snick snick" precision.

 

Instead of a mass produced firearm that includes manufacturing tolerance slop - includes over springing to overcome the resistance of non fitted parts; you will be handling a finely tuned firearm operating at the peak of its potential. 

 

That will always be the better experience.

 

 

[El Catorce]

1 hour ago, Totes Magoats said:

 

I smooth running, slicked up, and short stroked '73 is sure fun to shoot.  

 

But then again, I got heated seats in my truck and I live in South Texas...

 

Totes

… the heated seats do come in handy on that weekend we call winter down here… btw, I’ve discovered that heated seats may help keep pizza warm on the ride back from pick up. 

[Tallboy]

1 hour ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

ABSOLUTELY get the short stroke.

ABSOLUTELY

ABSOLUTELY

 

The mechanical operation of a tuned and short stroked rifle has a much more satisfying "feel" than the stock rifle.

 

After the rifle is returned to you - the machine will be correctly timed, the parts smoothed and the action will cycle with a sewing machine like "snick snick" precision.

 

Instead of a mass produced firearm that includes manufacturing tolerance slop - includes over springing to overcome the resistance of non fitted parts; you will be handling a finely tuned firearm operating at the peak of its potential. 

 

That will always be the better experience.

 

 

Well I was pretty certain of not getting it until I read you reply, now you have made me on the fence again 

[Itchy Trigger]

51 minutes ago, El Catorce said:

… the heated seats do come in handy on that weekend we call winter down here… btw, I’ve discovered that heated seats may help keep pizza warm on the ride back from pick up. 

 

I thought heated handles on my motorcycle was silly in Texas. BOY ARE THEY USEFUL!!!

[Last Call Saul]

22 minutes ago, Tallboy said:

Well I was pretty certain of not getting it until I read you reply, now you have made me on the fence again 

 

I think most of this "sewing machine" feeling comes from the action job, that should accompany a short stroking.  and it will be as good without short strok, but with a good action job alone

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

1 hour ago, El Catorce said:

… the heated seats do come in handy on that weekend we call winter down here… btw, I’ve discovered that heated seats may help keep pizza warm on the ride back from pick up. 

Wouldn't it stay hotter if you just tossed it in the bed of the pickup?

[Tallboy]

22 minutes ago, Last Call Saul said:

 

I think most of this "sewing machine" feeling comes from the action job, that should accompany a short stroking.  and it will be as good without short strok, but with a good action job alone

Ok that's good. I'm 100% absolutely getting the best action job, so I'm glad that takes care of all of it right there. I also love your username 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

I built competition Toggle Link rifles for competitors for over 20 years.  When approached by the "New Guys" I always counseled the biggest. "Bang for The Buck" is a quality Action Job.  Along with judicious rubbin-n-buffin, it's important to change out the OEM springs in the rifle as they are not only very "over-Spring" but will cause pre-mature wear in the action.  Changing the Lever Side Springs out for SlixSprings, and a somewhat lighter Main Spring will make your rifle much more user friendly.  Whether you opt for just and Action job or get ALL the bells and whistles, be sure and add a "Lever Wrap."  When you start running the rifle with gusto, your fingers and knuckles will seriously thank you.  Most importantly, HAVE FUN

[Anvil Al #59168]

2 hours ago, Tallboy said:

Well I was pretty certain of not getting it until I read you reply, now you have made me on the fence again 

 

Well not that I see you added money don't matter.

 

Shooting a smooth easy running short stroked gun is pretty sweet.

And just a joy to shoot.

[Ripsaw]

Since money is not a concern, then by all means, get the short stroke along with the action job. You'll find the gun more fun to shoot and it will be capable when you try your hand at "10 rounds in 3 seconds" which I bet, 100%, you'll try to do. It's just like having a Corvette and the irresistible urge to give it a bit of excess throttle from time to time.  "Yeah, I'll take the Corvette, but I really don't plan on driving it fast, so just give me the 6 cylinder.." Nobody ever said. 

[El Catorce]

2 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Wouldn't it stay hotter if you just tossed it in the bed of the pickup?

Less trail dust in the front seat. 

[Equanimous Phil]

11 hours ago, Tallboy said:

The one part of the upgrade I'm still contemplating is adding the short stroke kit. I've never used one, and I have no place to try one so I'm trying to make this decision from online/videos/advice alone.

I am sure someone could point out a match near your location where you can handle rifles with (different) short strokes. IMHO, that's the only way to find out what you like.

 

14 hours ago, Tallboy said:

My concern is that somehow the short stroke kit will take away from the amazing historic satisfying motion of the lever action.

I myself kind of see it that way. I enjoy shooting this 150 year old design as part of Cowboy Action Shooting. Things get improved all the time. There was the Volcanic Pistol, the 1860 Henry Rifle, 1866 Yellow Boy, then the 1873. Of course you can alter and improve it further, but is it still the 1873 design then? While I don't consider polishing parts and lightening springs as design change, I think short stroking is. For me, an extremely short stroked 1873 doesn't look like an 1873 anymore while levering.

Is a short stroked rifle more comfortable to shoot? Yes, definitely. But so would be fluorescent sights for example. Or why not convert the action in a semi-auto which would make it even more convenient to shoot? Absurd? Our rule book had to explicitly ban such things, which tells me that at some time people have tried it. Everything that is within the rules will be done to make the guns faster. Short stroking is one of it. I heard that the train has left and many rifles have already been short stroked when the short stroking clause came to the SASS rule book. So, it requests a lever travel of at least 4 1/8 inch (probably the shortest ones that were around then). There are other CAS associations that do not allow short stroked rifles.

 

Just some thoughts and my opinion, each to their own 

Equanimous

[Dusty Devil Dale]

18 hours ago, Rafe Conager SASS #56958 said:

I used my stock  uberti  73 for 10 years before I even had an action job, gained  minimal speed, what I did gain was smoother  cycling so that the rifle stayed on target due to less force.  I did get a short stroke kit put in a few years ago and gained a  little time  but I'm a middle of the pack shooter. If I wasn't  competing I'd spend the money on ammo.

Rafe 

Over ten years you probably did 90% of an action job, just due to normal wear.  Well-made guns have a way of slicking themselves.  

[Rafe Conager SASS #56958]

Yep, and I did a little  Emory cloth work when I'd do a full takedown cleaning.  Looking for wear marks.  

Rafe 

[Eliphalet R. Moderator]

20 hours ago, Tallboy said:

I just bought a Uberti 1873 in .357, and I'm having it tuned by Long Hunter with the Gunfighter Action package

 

The Gunfighter Action Package includes the short-stroke already.

 

https://www.longhunt.com/web/index.php?page=model-1873-carbines-rifles  

 

 

[Tallboy]

2 hours ago, Eliphalet R. Moderator said:

 

The Gunfighter Action Package includes the short-stroke already.

 

https://www.longhunt.com/web/index.php?page=model-1873-carbines-rifles  

 

 

 

Hey there, yep I know. But after talking with him he said I could customize it if I wanted everything except the short stroke.

[Rex M Rugers #6621]

I think you would be just as happy without the short-stroke. Later on , if you get a chance to handle a short-stroked rifle , and fall in love with it , you can always send it back to Long Hunter for the fix. 

For just having fun like you alluded to in the O.P. , you will never miss it.

Rex 

[Barkeep Casey]

The difference between a box stock 1873 and one that has been slicked up is amazing. It is like jumping out of a Yugo and jumping into a Cadillac. One could argue the merits of whether a short stroke itself is well spent for just plinking cans, but I think you would enjoy shooting the gun much more with the action slicked up and a trigger job.

[Tallboy]

2 hours ago, Barkeep Casey said:

The difference between a box stock 1873 and one that has been slicked up is amazing. It is like jumping out of a Yugo and jumping into a Cadillac. One could argue the merits of whether a short stroke itself is well spent for just plinking cans, but I think you would enjoy shooting the gun much more with the action slicked up and a trigger job.

I'm 100% going to get an action job, I was more trying to determine if, disregarding cost, a short stroke kit would take away from the fun.

Phrased another way... lets say you could make a short stroke kit that was only 1 inch. It increases speed even more, but would I ever want a gun, where the most satisfying bit is cocking it, to be only 1 inch? Absolutely not, at that point I would just get a semi-automatic, because the most fun part of the rifle (the stroke) would be 'neutered'. I was trying to find out if a short stroke kit neuters that feel, even a tiny bit

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

It’s just my opinion and as you can see they are varied. I have shot both and if money didn’t matter I’d go with the short stroke, I think it makes it more fun to shoot. If money was tight I would skip the short stroke and enjoy it.  If you decide to not get the short stroke I would recommend you don’t try out anyones short stroked rifle.

 

Good Luck

Randy

[Tallboy]

1 minute ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

If you decide to not get the short stroke I would recommend you don’t try out anyones short stroked rifle.

 

Good Luck

Randy

LOL! That made me laugh out loud.

 

And yes, as of right now (thanks to your PM) I am just going to go for it, but I figured I'd reply to this thread to answer that question.

 

Thanks so much everyone for your help 

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

I think you’ll be happy!

 

 Randy 

[Jackrabbit Joe #414]

On 7/12/2022 at 2:31 PM, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

ABSOLUTELY get the short stroke.

ABSOLUTELY

ABSOLUTELY

 

The mechanical operation of a tuned and short stroked rifle has a much more satisfying "feel" than the stock rifle.

 

After the rifle is returned to you - the machine will be correctly timed, the parts smoothed and the action will cycle with a sewing machine like "snick snick" precision.

 

Instead of a mass produced firearm that includes manufacturing tolerance slop - includes over springing to overcome the resistance of non fitted parts; you will be handling a finely tuned firearm operating at the peak of its potential. 

 

That will always be the better experience.

 

 

Good advise pilgrim