Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Reloading shotshells for the '97


Abilene, SASS # 27489

Recommended Posts

This question would be more for those who reload for both SxS and '97, though '97 shooters only might chime in.  I'm using mostly red AA hulls since I load BP in green and gold Remington hulls.  A lot of people toss their hulls after X number of smokeless reloads (sometimes just one), and I know the AA hulls aren't as good as they used to be.  Sometimes they toss them when they see splits.   Do any of you take hulls, either yours or other's castoffs, that you would consider iffy for SxS and then load them again for the pump?  Seems that hulls hanging up is pretty much of a SxS problem (assuming the '97 is in proper working condition),  so it seems like they should still be useable in the pump.  I've only loaded and shot two boxes so far that I would not necessarily want to shoot in the SxS, plus another box of aluminum (or steel?) base Winchester hulls that most smokeless folks would shun.  All have been fine so far.  I gauge the reloads as soon as they come off the press, but have not been gauging again before shooting in the '97.  So far no problems.  How ratty can the hulls get and still be usable in the pump?  BTW, I am marking these boxes "97 only" 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you can reload the hull, het a good crimp and a smooth exterior, there is no reason to not reload a hull. The 97 will usually feed any hull that is not damaged. I have some old winchester hulls that have been loaded 10 pr more time. YMMV.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I run all of my reloaded shells through the MEC Supersizer just to make sure that are sized right. Some of the high base reloads won’t size correctly in the sizer on the 9000 so just to be sure I take the extra step.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only problem I have ever had with 97 loads is that some guns will stick with some of the cheap shells with steel bases.  AA's and STS's are the only hulls still made with brass bases.  Others make look brass but they are plated steel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a SxS shooter I only use green/gold Remington hulls. I usually get at least 5 reloads, sometimes as many as 8. 
I toss my hulls when they begin to “frost” on the outside near the mouth of the hull or if they start to get pinholes or any split in the crimp folds. My decision point is any visible light through the defect inside the hull. We have collection buckets on each stage I throw them into and after the match it is rare any will still be in there so some others feel they are still good enough. I have never bothered to worry about the 97 as it runs pretty much everything. My loads will run without issue in a semi automatic mossberg 930 JM as well. 
Regards

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I load similarly to Gateway Kid except I use Gun Club hulls, they run great in my SxS and I have found that the STS's are to difficult to find.

 

I load my shells, case check them before boxing, and then shoot them in a match. After the match I will then inspect each hull before putting them into my storage box to see the condition. If the petals are damaged or cracked then they go into a different box to either shoot in practice or give them to the wife for her 97 when she occasionally comes out to shoot. They then get tossed out. That's only for monthly matches. Anything annual and about get once fired for all of us. I'm getting between 5 and 8 reloads per hull out of the double.

 

JEL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

I run all of my reloaded shells through the MEC Supersizer just to make sure that are sized right. Some of the high base reloads won’t size correctly in the sizer on the 9000 so just to be sure I take the extra step.

 

I used to do this until the QuikLoader came out.  Now use it on all my shells

https://coyotesmercantile.com/collections/shotshell-reloading/products/quikloader

and no, I'm not part of this operation other than buying one of the early ones (at full price)

 

I do toss them if they have been stepped on or develop cracks at the crimp area

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've used both AA's and STS until they are just real nasty and cracked in my SxS and Ellie's 97 without an issue in either. Even frosted ones! The only ones I chuck are the crushed ones from stepping on them. Started the game with some old somewhat cracked AA and used them for a few years and my nephew is still using them! Betting they've been reloaded a couple dozen times. I haven't counted, but I've got to be up near a dozen on the once fired STS I bought years ago from BPI. I do throw out the ones I use for BP however just cuz. If they fit the checker, they are good to go, I'm rotating about 500 give or take.YMMV :D

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the replies.  I might be worrying too much about the condition of the hulls.  Sounds like some of these hulls that are getting worn might actually still be fine in the SxS .  I should probably take some that I intended for the '97 and try them in the SxS, might be fine.  I know that my Baikal and TTN will both shuck Gold Nitro hulls loaded with BP 5 or more times that are pretty fried with no problem.  But since even new AA's sometimes need to be gauged and sized before shucking properly, it just seems like I have to get used to the idea that after they get old that they are still usable.  And I guess the answer to the question of how ratty can hulls be and still useful in the '97 is: pretty ratty. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll occasionally pick up discarded Win AA hulls if they look to be once-fired. When I first started using the '97, the gunsmith that worked on it (Outlaw Gambler) told me to only use Win AAs b/c of the brass, so that's all I use in 'em. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since both the Supersizer and Quikloader have been mentioned I thought it might be useful for new shooters and reloaders to explain that they are different tools for different purposes.  The Supersizer only sizes the base portion of the shell.  (Top photo.)  If you are scrounging Gun Clubs (or other hulls) from a range and they have been fired from different guns the bases can vary depending on a particular gun's chamber dimensions.  The Supersizer sizes the brass/steel portion of the shell back to spec.  The Quickloader only sizes the upper or crimp portion of the hull and puts a slight taper on the end of the shell for easier insertion and extraction.  (Bottom photo.)  This is especially useful in a double barrel since they have extractors but no ejectors.  Two tools for two different jobs.

 

DSC_0001.thumb.jpeg.1beb01627c652d62e05e1c4fd82d517d.jpeg

 

DSC_0004.thumb.jpeg.afc1aa2f10416a9ae5fad909f9501076.jpeg

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is kinda off the topic, but still dealing in the general area regarding hulls and crimps.

 

Has anyone here used the SliX Shotshell Checker Sizer Combo? I saw it online and I'm just curious how it works. The theory behind it is sound with the fact it temporarly pushes the crimp points down. I'm loading my sons super light loads on a Lee load all and it crimps ok, but definitely not the best. Even reloads using once fired hulls have some issues shucking. They drop in perfect it's after they're shot that they hang up. This tool sounds like it may help. In the interview with Midwest Drifter he says the "adjustment" to the hull is not permanent so I don't think it shouldn't effect the reloading of the hull.

 

Has anyone used one of these?

 

JEL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I'm using a Lee Loadall 2 with the sizing ring so all my bases are getting resized.  Some take more force to get them totally sized than others.

 

I don't have a Lee Load-All but I have found that the sizing ring on my 600 jr is not up to the task when it comes to resizing the bases of hulls collected at CAS ranges. Some shooters have the chambers on their SXS so over sized that the bases of the hulls they shoot are way out of spec. On some the rims appear to be too thick because were are not properly supported when fired and the sizer ring on my 600 jr cannot correct them enough to prevent issues in my 87.

 

Bought a Super Sizer and and that problem has been completely eliminated.  I now use the Super Sizer on even new boxes of shells as I have run across case lots where the heads were out of spec when checked with my hull checker. I don't even bother to gage them first I just run then all through the Super Sizer. I can tell the ones that are out of spec by the force needed to actuate the collett.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

 

I used to do this until the QuikLoader came out.  Now use it on all my shells

https://coyotesmercantile.com/collections/shotshell-reloading/products/quikloader

and no, I'm not part of this operation other than buying one of the early ones (at full price)

 

I do toss them if they have been stepped on or develop cracks at the crimp area

The Quick Loader doesn’t do anything to the high brass base on 16 gauge shells. I don’t have a problem with the crimped end it’s the base. Nearly all 16 gauge shells are brass plated steel and if they aren’t sized right they won’t extract reliably.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've had some AA reloads that flared outwards somewhat at the crimp.  They would not feed properly in the '97.  Since I obtained an item, similar to the quick loader, that mounts on my cart, the problem has gone away.  I use a Super Sizer after reloading because my MEC doesn't quite do the job.  I'm fussy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

I don't have a Lee Load-All but I have found that the sizing ring on my 600 jr is not up to the task when it comes to resizing the bases of hulls collected at CAS ranges. Some shooters have the chambers on their SXS so over sized that the bases of the hulls they shoot are way out of spec. On some the rims appear to be too thick because were are not properly supported when fired and the sizer ring on my 600 jr cannot correct them enough to prevent issues in my 87.

 

Bought a Super Sizer and and that problem has been completely eliminated.  I now use the Super Sizer on even new boxes of shells as I have run across case lots where the heads were out of spec when checked with my hull checker. I don't even bother to gage them first I just run then all through the Super Sizer. I can tell the ones that are out of spec by the force needed to actuate the collett.

 

On the occasional hull that the Lee sizing ring doesn't want to size all the way to the rim, I toss those hulls.  And occasionally I find some that have the rim pooched and rounded on the bottom (won't stand up straight).  Toss those, too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Abilene:   You saw me dumping shells on Saturday for two reasons.  1st, they were the Winchester white box target loads with the aluminum case heads, and I was under the impression that my MEC Sizemaster would crush the heads (once I get it fixed, after 30 years it really needs a rebuild.) .  2nd:  I have about 1200 empty AA hulls at home, mostly shot once, left over from my skeet shooting days.  I usually reload shells until they start splitting (usually afte about 5-7 loads. 

 

BTW, Thanks for your help with that Ruger.  When I got home I flooded it with CLP and let it drain.  Functions fine now.   

 

Doc sends.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, Doc Holloman said:

Hey Abilene:   You saw me dumping shells on Saturday for two reasons.  1st, they were the Winchester white box target loads with the aluminum case heads, and I was under the impression that my MEC Sizemaster would crush the heads (once I get it fixed, after 30 years it really needs a rebuild.) .  2nd:  I have about 1200 empty AA hulls at home, mostly shot once, left over from my skeet shooting days.  I usually reload shells until they start splitting (usually afte about 5-7 loads. 

 

BTW, Thanks for your help with that Ruger.  When I got home I flooded it with CLP and let it drain.  Functions fine now.   

 

Doc sends.  

Hi Doc.  I ended up with 18 of your hulls and already reloaded them yesterday and they came out fine.  But from what I'm learning I don't need to be scrounging the aluminum base.  I do still have some once fired AA's that I saved years ago but I have to dig them out.  Glad your Rugers are doing better!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I train/teach at our LEO range weekly for annual quals/practice.  A few months ago I brought out an AK12 to blow a bunch of rounds through in our downtime. We have a lot of old ammo that gets seized and property and evidence gives it to the instructors to shoot up when it's been tagged for destruction. We usually have a couple of 5 gallon buckets full of miscellaneous shells lying around... slugs, bird, buck, 3 1/2" mag turkey loads that kick the life out of you and more. It's comical just randomly stuffing the drum full and mag dumping it. Light, light, slug, turkey, light, slug, turkey:blink:.

 

Anyway, that day I found a couple of 5 round boxes of shells in the lot. The box was very plain brown wrapper generic,  almost military looking, with 00 buck written on it. The shells were a olive drab green with a black matte finish high base with no writing on it at all and no head stamp markings.  Those shells would not feed into any of the semi auto or pump guns, it was junk. It did fire well in grouping as long as you hand loaded each shell into the chamber. The base was so thin and soft that they would just crinkle up and bind as the bolt came home jamming the gun. You could literally bend the metal lip with your fingernail.  We first guessed It really thin brass that was painted. but the plateing didn't scratch off, even with a knife. We then thought the base was anodized aluminum because we checked and found it was not magnetic. Weird. If they were aluminum they were the first I've ever seen.  

 

JEL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

As far as I know there are no aluminum base shotgun hulls.  Abilene stick a magnet on them and let us know if they stick.

Yes, they are steel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Hi Doc.  I ended up with 18 of your hulls and already reloaded them yesterday and they came out fine.  But from what I'm learning I don't need to be scrounging the aluminum base.  I do still have some once fired AA's that I saved years ago but I have to dig them out.  Glad your Rugers are doing better!

Abilene, If you need AA hulls let me know.  I can certainly spare you a hundred or so.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/10/2022 at 5:35 PM, SHOOTIN FOX said:

If you can reload the hull, het a good crimp and a smooth exterior, there is no reason to not reload a hull. The 97 will usually feed any hull that is not damaged. I have some old winchester hulls that have been loaded 10 pr more time. YMMV.

 

Same Same here.  Mostly AA, STS and Gun Club hulls, but I've reloaded many others and many times with no problem except for Federals. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I load AA exclusively and keep reloading them until they crack at the crimp or otherwise fail somehow, though anything other than a crack at the crimp is extremely rare.  They get shot in my SxS and my wife's 97.  I don't keep track of which shells get shot in which gun, and I don't keep count of how many times any given shell has been reloaded.  I inspect as the first step of reloading; if it looks good, it is good.  Not rocket science.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/10/2022 at 8:41 PM, Yul Lose said:

I run all of my reloaded shells through the MEC Supersizer just to make sure that are sized right. Some of the high base reloads won’t size correctly in the sizer on the 9000 so just to be sure I take the extra step.

Seems odd. The 9000 has the same collet sizer as the Super Sizer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

Seems odd. The 9000 has the same collet sizer as the Super Sizer.

Yes it does, but it doesn’t crimp high base 16 gauge well. Low base no issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I load AA's for use in my Parkers and my 97's.  And my 87's for that matter.  Some of my AA hulls are positively ancient, being ones that my father bought before I was born, and I am 55.   Dad used to put a tick mark on the base just above the brass every time he reloaded them.  When he had tick marks going all the way around on some of them, he stopped bothering.   I am still using Dad's old hulls, as well as some newer ones he acquired as a trap shooter.   Dad passed almost 20 years ago, so even the newest hulls in my bins are getting on it years and have been reloaded multiple times.   I use the same load in all my 12 gauge shotguns, one that Dad developed years ago.   To be honest, I can't remember the last time I had one split on me.

I use more or less the same load in the Magtech all brass hulls too.   Only the wads are different between them and the AA's.  It's never even occurred to me to use a different loading for the Parkers and the 97's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I load once fired AA with BP then toss them out.  Some pards asked if they can pick it up and reuse them, told them they are welcome to it.  Nothing wrong with them, just didn't want to bother reloading AA's that were shot with BP.  Sometimes the crimp get too stiff to be recrimped.  Though I use STS and Nitro for smokeless and reloaded them many times until I see more than two split on the crimp, then toss them out.  Although I have used the green and gold with two splits and had no probem with my SxS.   I own 97 but prefer SxS to shoot,  I had no problem using reloaded split hulls in my 97.  Of course YMMV.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shotshells, unlike pistol brass, is NOT really interchangeable between brands.  Whatever brand of shotshell you use, use that exclusively and avoid problems.  There are different lengths, different internal dimensions, different brass dimensions, etc.  You can adjust for any of them, but done interchange without checking the adjustments on your loader.  (And use the recommended wad.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use STS hulls for my wifes ammo that is loaded on a MEC 9000. My wife knows if there is a AA hull in her box it would be BP and not smokeless. She does not like those kind of surprises.  For myself I pretty much only use AA hulls which for the most part are loaded on a MEC jr or PW 375. I do run mine through a supersizer that are being loaded on the jr the PW sizes the base very nice. I pretty much will use the hulls until they are getting crispy then I trim them and then roll crimp them. After that they are trashed. 

 

Hochbauer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've had no issue on my Mecs going from STS to AA and back. Just a powder drop change as I use BP in the AA's and smokeless in the STS all other adjustments are never touched. Just my mileage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.