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Best tool for opening SxS barrel breech


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I've done most every other step of slicking up my SxS 12 gauge.  It is time to open up the breech of each barrel to make it a bit easier to "find" the openings when rolling in two shells.  What is the preferred tool for doing this?  A chamfer cutter?  A countersink cutter?  A ball seat hone? Something else?  (If you say Dremel, you are MDQ'd.)  Maker and size info will be appreciated.

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The two gunsmiths I’ve personally observed doing this both used Dremels. If there was a better tool I’m sure they’d use it. Of course they have experience, but nonetheless it was their tool of choice. 

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If you use one of the popular cylinder hones like those from Brownells, be sure to: (1) use the correct oil lubricant and (2) Be sure to remove the extractors before honing.  If they are cut too wide, shell heads can slip past (inside) them.  

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I have a Baikal tuned by Coyote Cap over 20 years ago.   Works great but back then funneling the breech was not "a thing."  Lately I have been slowly opening it up a little at a time with sandpaper and my fingers.  It's pretty slow but there's no way I'm going to go too far.  :)

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Guys, I'm not a complete moron.  Taking the ears off of the upper end of the extractor with a Dremel was a piece of cake and that job turned out very nicely.  That one is very easy to "eyeball" and get it right.  

Anyone who would think that they could open up the barrel's breech face without removing the extractor first is ... well ... a complete moron.  Also, anyone who uses ANY tool to cut steel without using a high-quality high-sulfur cutting oil is also ... ok, maybe not a complete moron, but pretty darn close. 

A cylinder hone is not the right tool -- it is for honing the INSIDE of the cylinder; it basically fits inside the cylinder to do its job.  To open up the rear face of the barrel, the cutter has to be sized to cut a total diameter of almost 1.5 inches.  There are a few different cutting tools that will do this cleanly and uniformly and in a controlled way, with proper set-up; 3- or 4-flute chamfer cutter, 3- or 4-flute (or more) countersink cutter, ball seat cutter, maybe others.  (More flutes results in less "chatter" and less subsequent polishing, for the uninitiated.)  I'm simply asking if anyone has done it with any of these tools; if not, that's fine.  

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I only wanted to chamfer the top half of the chamber opening as that is where I roll the shells in. No need for me to do the bottom half. Can't do that win any sort of circular cutting tool so I just used a Dremel type tool.

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2 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

 

 

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1 minute ago, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said:

I only wanted to chamfer the top half of the chamber opening as that is where I roll the shells in. No need for me to do the bottom half. Can't do that win any sort of circular cutting tool so I just used a Dremel type tool.

Thank you!! That makes a lot of sense.  I was actually wondering why the "professional" jobs I saw went all the way around the outside edges to the bottom.

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4 minutes ago, Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 said:

Thank you!! That makes a lot of sense.  I was actually wondering why the "professional" jobs I saw went all the way around the outside edges to the bottom.

I use a 1" X 1/4" medium grit cratex wheel on a 1/16" arbor.  Roll the barrel and hold the Dremel stationary

3 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

 

 

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I am old school.  I use needle files and just take a little at a time.  Then dress up with Emery Cloth.

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The last one I did I used something similar to this with the extractors out and mostly held it toward the top and didn't get into the shell shelf. Then polished it with a small felt wheel.

 

Randy

 

Norton Gemini Vitrified Mounted Point,  1in,  60G 61463624396

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I've been shooting a baikal for 15 years without any chamfering and my shells go right in. Personally I think that mod is a waste, but to each their own. 

 

JEL

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ND; I roll mine in from the top but some guys shove them in straight from the rear, so for them it is a worthwhile mod.  Saw a guy doing it yesterday, may have to try it myself, as he always beats me!

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46 minutes ago, John E. Law said:

I've been shooting a baikal for 15 years without any chamfering and my shells go right in. Personally I think that mod is a waste, but to each their own. 

 

JEL

Sure, there's no rule that says "do it," none that says "don't."  I have enjoyed a noticeable improvement in my loading efficiency, and a great reduction in fumbling, when I removed the upper flared out ears from the extractor.  The picture is of an SKB extractor; the ears on my CZ was even more pronounced.  I figure that I will see another improvement with this chamfering mod, even if not as dramatic.  Those ears were really troublesome to me.

ND

extractor.jpeg

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36 minutes ago, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said:

ND; I roll mine in from the top but some guys shove them in straight from the rear, so for them it is a worthwhile mod.  Saw a guy doing it yesterday, may have to try it myself, as he always beats me!

Yeah, but how do the people do it that beat him?

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24 minutes ago, Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 said:

Sure, there's no rule that says "do it," none that says "don't."  I have enjoyed a noticeable improvement in my loading efficiency, and a great reduction in fumbling, when I removed the upper flared out ears from the extractor.  The picture is of an SKB extractor; the ears on my CZ was even more pronounced.  I figure that I will see another improvement with this chamfering mod, even if not as dramatic.  Those ears were really troublesome to me.

ND

 

I get why people do it,  just don't see the point. I don't see how that makes anyone faster. Only practice does that. The Baikal Remington Spartan 220 has an even larger extractor and the shells go right in. But,  like I said, too each his own. I just can't see damaging, possibly ruining a shotgun for this mod.  

 

39 minutes ago, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said:

ND; I roll mine in from the top but some guys shove them in straight from the rear, so for them it is a worthwhile mod.  Saw a guy doing it yesterday, may have to try it myself, as he always beats me!

I poke straight in with the hour glass type extractor and no issues. 1639723171_Screenshot_20220710-203214_SamsungInternet.jpg.e330334c8cc698bb24447047ed04e8fa.jpg

 

JEL

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1 hour ago, Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 said:

Randy SE, what the diameter of that ball?

I think it was about 1”, I think it’s buried in one of my tool boxes and I couldn’t find it.

 

 Randy 

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John E Law: I swore I wouldn't ever put a  short stroke kit in my rifles ever, and for many years I didn't. But I finally did and am glad, as it just makes the rifle function better. Same for funneling the shotguns. It may or may not make you much faster, but it does make things easier to use and usually more consistent. As for ruining a shotgun, most of us here will not use these guns for anything other than SASS, so it probably will never matter. I am not a fast shooter, almost always shoot full loads of BP and if I can keep most of my stages in the low 30's I am happy. What ever works for you, that's what you should do.

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32 minutes ago, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said:

What ever works for you, that's what you should do.

Not once but twice I posted I don't see a reason for this mod AND ADDED both times "but to each his own"

 

As for damaging the gun? I'm talking about doing this mod and ruining the gun entirely, not losing resale value, I've seen it happen. Most of these guns are only used for SASS now anyway. 

 

It's your gun, do with it what you want. MY Opinion was and still is that you'd be better off spending 5 minutes a night dryfiring for free, most likely gaining several seconds per match in the prosses, than spending money on this mod, risk ruining your shotgun, in attempt to gsin a couple tenths. But again TO EACH HIS OWN. Good luck with it.

 

JEL

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From Northern tool for initial shaping, buy two if you got this route. Use in cordless drill.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200873428_200873428 or the conical version works well if you can find one.

 

400grit wet/dry sand paper by hand to start finish. 

 

Polishing with lapping compound on conical shaped felt wheel, then polishing compound .

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200636991_200636991

 

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So, if I practice dry firing AND do the mod I will be even faster!

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18 hours ago, Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 said:

Guys, I'm not a complete moron.  Taking the ears off of the upper end of the extractor with a Dremel was a piece of cake and that job turned out very nicely.  That one is very easy to "eyeball" and get it right.  

Anyone who would think that they could open up the barrel's breech face without removing the extractor first is ... well ... a complete moron.  Also, anyone who uses ANY tool to cut steel without using a high-quality high-sulfur cutting oil is also ... ok, maybe not a complete moron, but pretty darn close. 

A cylinder hone is not the right tool -- it is for honing the INSIDE of the cylinder; it basically fits inside the cylinder to do its job.  To open up the rear face of the barrel, the cutter has to be sized to cut a total diameter of almost 1.5 inches.  There are a few different cutting tools that will do this cleanly and uniformly and in a controlled way, with proper set-up; 3- or 4-flute chamfer cutter, 3- or 4-flute (or more) countersink cutter, ball seat cutter, maybe others.  (More flutes results in less "chatter" and less subsequent polishing, for the uninitiated.)  I'm simply asking if anyone has done it with any of these tools; if not, that's fine.  

Looks like you've answered your own O.P. question very competently.  

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The best tool I have seen was custom built with replacable carbide cutters. The tool was about $1500. I don't even mess with doing them anymore. I just take them to the man with the tool . 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have used a die grinder with an abrasive stone like Randy showed, but I first use a dressing stone to reshape the grinder stone so it will be a more shallow approach. I also have used small files.  Either way go slow and finish up  with polish on a soft mop.  Watch the ledge and leave it fully intact.

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16 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

Bear in mind, once you "funnel" a shotgun breach, once you tire of it, CAS is your only market.  No other "Shotgunners" will touch it.

OTOH, how many "shotgunners" are looking for 20" coach guns with action jobs?  Worked-on CAS shotguns get bought up pretty quickly on the WIRE.   CAS is still doing "ok" these days, numbers are dropping but still a viable sport.  But in the future, who knows.   There may come a day when any of these tricked out guns are hard to sell without losing a lot.  Hopefully that is far away.

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I bit the bullet, so to speak, and did the job with a larger conical Dremel grinder tip, then wet/dry 220 paper.  I clamped the barrels to the bench top with the breech just an inch or so off the top.  Then I sat on the stool and moved the tool at my desired angle in a "swinging" sort of motion, going slowly enough to avoid making a mistake.   

 

I think it came out entirely satisfactory -- I'll find out exactly how satisfactory at our club match on Saturday.  I'll post a couple of pictures if the darn thing works as hoped -- it should, as I practiced loading and shucking with my set of dummy shells.

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On 7/10/2022 at 8:28 AM, OK Dirty Dan said:

The two gunsmiths I’ve personally observed doing this both used Dremels. If there was a better tool I’m sure they’d use it. Of course they have experience, but nonetheless it was their tool of choice. 

I bet at least one of them uses a Foredom Tool… 

 

to answer the OPs question, a Foredom tool with a drum, and then polishing bits… be VERY careful and do not cut the chamber or the breach ends of the barrels. 

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