Last Call Saul Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 was it acceptable to wear a dress paisley vest without a coat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 In general, a man appearing in public without a coat would be almost considered going out in his underwear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 It would be no more acceptable - actually it would be even less acceptable then than now - then it would be for someone today to show up in church, say, in a three-piece suit without the jacket. My understanding is that everything that was worn underneath the coat was basically considered underwear. So just like you would not walk around today with your trousers off exposing your paisley undershorts, you would not walk around then with your coat off exposing your paisley vest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 From what I learned about it, while it wasn't quite the same as walking out in your white sewings, it was close. Keep in mind that until rather late in the 1800s a man's shirt was considered underwear, as were braces. The waistcoat covered the braces/suspenders/galooses and the shirt front when the jacket or coat was unbuttoned either indoors or outdoors, or should the coat be removed while inside. If no waistcoat was worn the coat wasn't removed and at least the top button stayed buttoned to hide the braces. I just thought of a good modern comparison: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 Only on a trail drive in hot weather. And you’d better be the ramrod or you’re gonna be laughed off you horse. But this is SASS, not a historical reenactment group that demands period correct attire. So as long as you don’t violate the costume guidelines you’re fine . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 52 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said: I've got a staple gun that I could fix that with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Call Saul Posted July 10, 2022 Author Share Posted July 10, 2022 Oh well... i guess i am going to show up in my underwear to the dinner at Illinois state shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuteye John SASS#24774 Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 We're talking about the Victorian Era and the uptight Victorian fashion rules apply. Shirts were undergarments. Vests or 'waistcoats' were worn to cover the shirt. Since you could still see the sleeves, a coat was worn to completely cover the garment. And don't forget some sort of tie, too. You didn't go about with an open collar- somebody might see some skin. Think about it. If you're wearing a coat, a 5 button vest and a puff tie, just how much of the shirt is really visible? That was proper respectable gentleman's attire for the era. Even a sack suit (which evolved into our 3 piece suit) covers most of the shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 35 minutes ago, Last Call Saul said: Oh well... i guess i am going to show up in my underwear to the dinner at Illinois state shoot Wear what ya got. John Wayne did. I try to be correctly attired but that’s just me and my history fetish. I have no problem with what other folks wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Call Saul Posted July 10, 2022 Author Share Posted July 10, 2022 I guess I will just use a fine black "sack" coat from Kohls to look respectable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Last Call Saul said: I guess I will just use a fine black "sack" coat from Kohls to look respectable Ya don’t have to look respectable. Just act respectable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Jack Calder Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said: Ya don’t have to look respectable. Just act respectable. Yer ask’n n aorful lot of usens there UUtah. CJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Call Saul Posted July 10, 2022 Author Share Posted July 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said: Ya don’t have to look respectable. Just act respectable. here lies a problem... out of these two - it's easier for me to compensate with looks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 Businessman, Law Dawg, or worn out cowhand. It’s all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 It can take quite a while to get an outfit together. I’ve been working on en for 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 Just another reason I wouldn’t want to go back in time to the Old West. I am averse to wearing unnecessary clothing and I hate being hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 im with pat , i avoid the banquets to avoid the hat stuff , im not adverse to dinner with folks but often just want to kick back in comfort or at least what i can find close to that , i do like the look of a well dressed couple when they are about but im not in that realm wear what you like , smoke em if you got em , be yourself is my motto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said: From what I learned about it, while it wasn't quite the same as walking out in your white sewings, it was close. Keep in mind that until rather late in the 1800s a man's shirt was considered underwear, as were braces. The waistcoat covered the braces/suspenders/galooses and the shirt front when the jacket or coat was unbuttoned either indoors or outdoors, or should the coat be removed while inside. If no waistcoat was worn the coat wasn't removed and at least the top button stayed buttoned to hide the braces. I just thought of a good modern comparison: Stated briefly, boxers, but none of them fit the profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Call Saul Posted July 10, 2022 Author Share Posted July 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, watab kid said: im with pat , i avoid the banquets to avoid the hat stuff , im not adverse to dinner with folks but often just want to kick back in comfort or at least what i can find close to that , i do like the look of a well dressed couple when they are about but im not in that realm wear what you like , smoke em if you got em , be yourself is my motto I will probably end up like that as well, but this is a first state shoot for me, so I am working a bit harder for this one... dinner will be on a paddle wheel boat on Mississipi so I hope it will not be that hot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said: Stated briefly, boxers But I going to qualify, and partially retract, what I initially wrote. That would have applied in the 1860s and in cities. I've just spent an hour or so googling images of cowboys in the 1880s & 1890s. I'm seeing very few waistcoats or coats, especially on working cowboys. Also more waist belts than suspenders. I don't know how representative these are of western society as a whole. I'll get over to my desktop and post some photographs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 Some photos, with the captions as found: Dakota Cowboy, 1880 Two Young Cowboys 'Guns, Bowie Knives, Rifles' Two Cowboys Have All The Accouterments For The Wild West : Over And Under Shotgun, Bowie Knife, Cartridge Belt With Six-Shooter. Man On Right: Winchester, Bowie Knife, Cartridge Belt With Six-Shooter And Also Long Rifle Cartridge Belt. These Cowboys Are Ready For Action. Six Shooters & Shotguns - Prepared For Anything. (Photo by Whittick & Son/Buyenlarge/Getty Images) 1880. (A rather interesting shotgun. Can someone identify it, please?) Arizona cowboys, 1880, dressed in the typical costume of the time, including low crown "Boss of the Plains" Stetsons, shotgun style chaps and vests, and some are wearing double-breasted or bib-front shirts. (standing, left to right) James Prusley, Walter Fife, James Maxwell; (seated, left to right) Billy Riggs, James McClure, Judge John Blake. 1880s, Gonzales Texas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 38 minutes ago, Last Call Saul said: I will probably end up like that as well, but this is a first state shoot for me, so I am working a bit harder for this one... dinner will be on a paddle wheel boat on Mississipi so I hope it will not be that hot you in iowa ? last time i was on a paddle wheel on the mississipi was at bix fest , my brother and sister were performing , but then that was a few decades ago in another century , enjoy it , it sounds like a great experience and by all means dress to the best , you will forever remember this one i think , sounds like a lot of fun to me , id go all out if i had that opportunity as well , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 They didnt wear deodorant - no concept of mouthwash and a toothbrush was a novelty. Walked thru streets brimming with horse feces and only bathed on special occasions (if at all). So a gathering of folks reeking of body odor, halitosis and their footwear coated in a fine sheen of animal poop... And the absence of a jacket was the offensive affront to society? Hmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 And then there's this dapper fella.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 13 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said: From what I learned about it, while it wasn't quite the same as walking out in your white sewings, it was close. Keep in mind that until rather late in the 1800s a man's shirt was considered underwear, as were braces. The waistcoat covered the braces/suspenders/galooses and the shirt front when the jacket or coat was unbuttoned either indoors or outdoors, or should the coat be removed while inside. If no waistcoat was worn the coat wasn't removed and at least the top button stayed buttoned to hide the braces. I just thought of a good modern comparison: B L M , belt loops matter, pull up your pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 6 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: And then there's this dapper fella.... Considering the tie styles, hat shapes and the Mauser Broomhandle pistol - I'm going to say (guess) this was a few years after the Victorian old west era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 14 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said: I am averse to wearing unnecessary clothing and I hate being hot. Can you say wool? Nope not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 8 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: And then there's this dapper fella.... He doesn't look anything like Bob! In trying to find more about that image I ran across: By 1900, semi autos such as the C-96 “broomhandle” Mauser and Luger became increasingly popular in the American west. The Mauser Broomhandle, or C96, was one of the earliest and most successful semiautomatic pistols. Introduced in 1896, by the time this photo was taken, likely between 1902 and 1904, western lawmen were already carrying semi-autos. In this photo, Anadarko, Oklahoma Territory Sheriff James Thompson and his deputies are displaying their guns for photographer Annette Ross Hume. Take a close look at the guns. At the top is Sheriff Thompson’s shoulder-stocked Broomhandle. (Photo courtesy Western History Collections, University of Oklahoma) This early 1900s Arizona lawman carried a new Luger Parabellum in a Mexican-style double drop loop holster. Proof that new guns and old ways managed to harmonize in the west. (Photo courtesy R.L. Wilson, The Peacemakers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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