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A head scratcher


Tex Jones, SASS 2263

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The issue is as follows:

Two SAAs and '73 rifle; all in 44-40.

Pistol 1 and rifle all function properly.  Pistol 2 shows high primers after shooting.  All ammo used is the same.

 

As background, last year due to a mistake in setting the powder drop on the Dillon incorrectly, rounds were loaded below the minimum (Titegroup-5.0 grs).  As a result, Pistol 2 had high primers, which were high enough to lock up the cylinder. Pistol 1 and rifle both functioned with no problem.  Since then the powder charge has been corrected.  Pistol 2 had one Power Custom shim on the bushing which was in place when the cylinder locked up.  Since then, I added a second bushing and the fired primers are still high, but not enough to lock up the cylinder.  Pistol 1 and the rifle continue to function properly with no high primers.  The ammo is new and used in any pistol.  Two other SAAs and two other rifles have used the same ammo with no issues.

 

Pictured are some of the fired rounds from Pistol 2.  The primers are proud of the case, but the pistol does not lock up.  With the addition of the second shim, there is very little, if any, end shake.

 

While  the ammo works, it doesn't make any sense to me that there should be any high primers.  Any thoughts?

IMG_0677.jpg

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I think a comparison of the recoil bushing/plate is in order. It may be cratered.

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The primers back out every time a round is fired. The recoil on the case pushed the case back against the recoiled shield resetting the primers flush with the case rim.

If the primers are not reset flush with the case rim then the charge is too light.

Your issue can be over come mechanically but a little more powder will fix this.

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11 minutes ago, Cliff Hanger #3720LR said:

The primers back out every time a round is fired. The recoil on the case pushed the case back against the recoiled shield resetting the primers flush with the case rim.

If the primers are not reset flush with the case rim then the charge is too light.

Your issue can be over come mechanically but a little more powder will fix this.

+1  I know everyone is concerned about excessive pressure and recoil, etc. with CAS loads.  But I caution that too light loads and insufficiant bullet "pull" due to not tight enough contact with the bullet by the case and/or too little crimp can lead to very high pressures if the bullet starts out of the case before pressure builds high enough to get the powder burning stablely. Pistol #2 may have excessive end shake, which you appear to have corrected with the shims, but I'd still suggest increasing the powder charge to allow the cylinder to reseat the primers. 

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Is there a cylinder gap difference between pistols. I had a pair of Ruger birdshead in 45 . One pistol had a slightly larger cylinder gap. Using the exact same ammo the pistol with the larger gap would not reset the primer and lock up the cylinder. My only correction was to up the charge in the case. I got rid of the pistols

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1 hour ago, Cholla said:

I think a comparison of the recoil bushing/plate is in order. It may be cratered.

i think Cholla has the solution.  Check the recoil shield and see if there is a crater around the firing pin hole.  This could be the cause of your problem.

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For those saying your load is too lite. I have been running 4.5 gr Titegroup in my 44-40s (7 different pistols, and 4 rifles) 160 to 200 gr bullets. I have never had a primer back out. It ain't that.

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2 hours ago, Ranger Dan said:

For those saying your load is too lite. I have been running 4.5 gr Titegroup in my 44-40s (7 different pistols, and 4 rifles) 160 to 200 gr bullets. I have never had a primer back out. It ain't that.

I agree, Dan.

 

The firing pin bushing on that pistol is loose.  I dropped it off with a 'smith this morning.  I'm shooting 5.4 grs Titegroup, up from 5.0/5.1 grs in the past to make sure light loads aren't the problem. 

 

Tex

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