Original Trapdoor

[Tequila Shooter]

The bunkhouse boss bought me an original 1873 trapdoor that was made about October of 1874.  I have no idea of the history of the gun, but I do know someone, at some time worked on it because the hammer screw’s head is broken off.  I want to use it, but, I refuse to until I know for certain it’s safe to fire.  For it’s age the gun is in good condition and the action works.  Here’s my conundrum, I’ve never worked on a Springfield trapdoor so I thought about sending it to someone who is knowledgeable for a once over but who? I’m pretty handy and every other gun I own I’ve taken down to parade rest and put back together without any extra parts.  So, now I thought I’d put it out here and see if anyone knows of someone that’s good with old guns and is familiar with trapdoors. 

[Paulo Pistolero]

Take it to a reputable gunsmith. I think they have ways to scan or test the metal for stresses to see if shootable. I have one that was reworked to almost new condition and the person doing the work was careful to not remove the cartouches from the stock. It did reduce the value but shoot ability was phenomenal. I took the gun despite its new looking condition and had it checked out. 

[Trailrider #896]

In the past, I have shot any number of guns of this era, even using smokeless powder! HOWEVER, you are looking at a 147+ year old piece of metal. It probably is okay to shoot with black powder loads using modern brass cartridges. The condition of the bore...rust, pitting, etc. can be a clue. Most of these were not given much care and cleaning by the troops that used them, and corrosion over the years can be possible.. 

But it may be difficult, not to mention expensive to have non-destructive testing (NDT) done with magnetic particle tests without ruining whatever finish is left. At the very least, I would have the hammer screw replaced with an original or a carefully made new one. Of course, you have to remove the stub of the broken one, and a good gunsmith should be able to do that.  I don't know if Dixie Gun Works still has any original screws for the M1873 Trapdoors or not.  Maybe S&S. 

At the very least, the headspace should be checked.  But, again, I would caution against shooting it.  BTW, is it a rifle or a carbine?

[watab kid]

mine was a few year newer than yours , it was an 88 rod bayonet example ,  i never shot BP in it only smokeless - light trailboss loads , they had less pressure than the old BP loads , it was not overly accurate but the bore had been abused over its lifetime , it was a lot of fun when i took it to the range , i would not have expected to compete in a cowboy long range side match but i would have attempted it for the fun of doing so , 

[Tequila Shooter]

1 hour ago, Trailrider #896 said:

BTW, is it a rifle or a carbine?

 

It’s a rifle.  It never occurred to me to try to get a NDT, I was thinking of only shooting BP loads.  The bore has some minor pitting but it looks very shootable, there is no outside rust or pitting. 

[Bailey Creek,5759]

In the Black Powder Cartridge, Spring 2022 Issue 117.

There is a good article on the 1873 Springfield.

It says that they only found one with a Bore .459.

The average is .462 and .463.

With that Slug your Bore.

Gas checks could help.

The Rifles usually shot a 500 gr, Bullet. A 400 should work, and be kinder on your shoulder.

[Tequila Shooter]

@Bailey Creek,5759 thanks I must have missed that article, I’ll go back and look it up. 

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

Good luck trying to slug the bore of a Trapdoor.

 

Mine is a Model 1873 that shipped in 1883.

 

The bore is in beautiful shape, with no pitting at all. However the rifling consists of three grooves, which makes it very difficult to get an accurate measurement on a slug run through the barrel. When measuring the slug, my calipers rest on the high point (representing a groove of the bore) and the low point (representing a land of the bore). Attempts to balance the end of the caliper on a high point and measure how deep the low point is are pretty much impossible to do accurately.

 

 

 

 

 

The bullets I use in my Trapdoor are 405 grain .458 diameter Flat Nose Round Points. Without knowing exactly what the groove diameter of my Trapdoor is, I can report that one of these bullets run through the bore gets imprinted very nicely by the rifling, and accuracy is plenty good enough for me.

 

 

 

 

 

My Trapdoor is in excellent shape, everything locks up nice and tight, however I would never dream of shooting Smokeless 45-70 rounds through it. I load all my Black Powder 45-70 rounds on my old Lyman Spartan single stage press.

 

 

 

 

 

The round all the way on the right is one of my Black Powder 45-70 rounds. I use a drop tube to charge the cases with 70 grains of Schuetzen FFg. I seat a thin card on top of the powder, then use a compression die to compress the powder, before seating and crimping my bullets.

 

 

 

 

 

Two weeks ago I got to take my Trapdoor to the annual Buffalo Match at a local club. Had lots of fun.

 

[Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409]

Not trying to hijack the thread. I very recently acquired a 1873 trapdoor carbine. I loaded it with 60gr 2f topped off with a 405 hb bullet. after 15 rounds my shoulder was not happy. But it shot nicely and will be back to the range for more abuse....LOL. I also had shot it with smokeless rounds  with 300 gr and 405 gr bullets and it was much more pleasant to shoot. But its back to the range again. It shot well at a 100 yards without having to move the site for 150 I did raise it up and it was spot on. Looking forward to shooting plainsman again.

 

Hochbauer

[Silver Creek Jack]

Slip a shooters friend butt pad on those old warhorses and make a painful experience a fun one. You neck and shoulder will thank you!

[Trailrider #896]

"The Rifles usually shot a 500 gr, Bullet. A 400 should work, and be kinder on your shoulder."

 

The initial loading for the M1873 Springfield was a 405 gr. bullet over 70 gr. of BP.  That large a charge was only possible in the inside-primed, folded head gilding metal (copper) cartridges.  Modern brass has a capacity of about 65 gr. The 500 gr. bullets only came in later, in the 1880's. Lyman's #457124 mould about duplicates the original bullet, with the #457125 duplicating the 500 gr.  The original military bullets were swaged, not cast, but it won't make a difference.  A bullet alloy of 1:24 tin/lead or some recommend 1:16. I've actually had pretty good luck shooting Lyman #2 equivalent alloy, even with light smokeless loads in .45-70 rifles and carbines.  Have fun developing loads (no sarcasm intended).  Oh, and if you find the rifle shooting 12 - 18 inches high at 100 yds, keep in mind that the intent was to have a combat zero of about 332 yds.  If you shoot at 100 yds, and find every round going way high, attach a second bullseye target below a first one, and aim at 6 o'clock, and you should get hits on the top target.  The alternative would be to make a higher front sight blade. (IIRC, the front blade is pinned into the sight base. But I may be wrong.)

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

I have never done any serious long range shooting with my trapdoor, but I do know that it tends to shoot high at 25 yards, is pretty much dead on at 50 yards.

[Pauldoe]

I have purchased an 1873 Trapdoor Cadet Rifle, so what might be a good  405 or 500gr bullet mold to cast my own? I assumed Driftwood purchased yours somewhere?

Best Regards,

Paul

[Bailey Creek,5759]

I like the RCBS 500 gr, Bullet.

[Woody Shootem, SASS # 24816]

As others have said, the original load was a 405 grain bullet with 70 grains of powder.  The cavalry troopers using carbines found the recoil excessive, and I have to agree.  The army soon adopted a different loading for the carbine:  55 gr. of BP with a 405 gr. bullet, instead of 70 gr.   This is what I use in my carbine, and it makes a BIG difference.

 

For what it's worth, I recommend sticking with BP only loads for your trapdoor. 

[watab kid]

my understanding was the cav also went to the 50 cal bullet as opposed to the 45 , i thought it was to compensate for the reduced powder load ..;.nut i could be wrong on that , 

[Pauldoe]

Thanks for your replies amigos.

Only blackpowder loads will be used - I'll save my Unique for 45acp!

Since it's a cadet trapdoor, I'll try a cadet load, as Woody mentioned.

[Trailrider #896]

10 hours ago, watab kid said:

my understanding was the cav also went to the 50 cal bullet as opposed to the 45 , i thought it was to compensate for the reduced powder load ..;.nut i could be wrong on that , 

Sorry, no. While there were a small number of .50-70-450 Trapdoor carbines issued, most of the .50-70's were rifles. The carbines were pretty much replaced by the .50-70 Sharps M1869 cartridge conversion carbines between about 1870 and 1874 when the M1873 in .45-70 was adopted for both rifles and carbines. Actual issue to the troops took place about six months to a year later than the model number of the guns.  Yes, the carbine loading was reduced to 55 gr. of BP, although several cavalry company commanders requested issue of the 70 grain rifle loads, as they felt the lighter charge limited the range of the carbines too much.  Until 1880's the 405 gr. bullet was used for both rifle and carbine ammo. In the 1880's, the 500 gr. bullet backed by the 70 gr. charge was issued to infantrymen with their rifles.

[Tequila Shooter]

When I start developing my load I was going to start with a reduced charge with a 300gr bullet with filler, anyone have a good recipe for that?

[Pee Wee #15785]

I use the a bullet from a Lyman #457125 that the "sea cow" sold me around 2005.  The bullet weighs 525 gr with the alloy used.  I use Starline or Remington brass annealed, 67 gr of Goex FFFg or FFG for most shooting.  If you want smaller grouping go to Swiss 1 1/2. or 2F.  My 1984 Springfield Trapdoor Rifle has been to NM for the big shoot there using Swiss and the #457125 bullet.   I also have an H&R Trapdoor.  Both guns shoot better with the heavier bullet.  With the 300gr bullet they shoot more of a shotgun pattern.