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Time for a Home Defense Shotgun


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Actually, Ruger makes a Charger 9mm pistol that might be quite handy. And a hit with a 9mm beats a miss with a 12 gauge.

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When people speak of a pistol caliber carbine, nowadays, they are most generally speaking of a semi-automatic in 9 mm 40 Smith or 45 ACP.

 

I don't recall ever reading anything pro or con by Jeff Cooper about such a firearm. I don't recall such a firearm being around at that time.

 

I do, however, remember him speaking quite favorably about the Rossi copies of the 92 Winchester in 357 and 44 Magnum. He said they would make a fine goblin gun.

 

I bought my first 92 - a 357 - on his recommendation. Sent it off to Steve Young to make sure it would run like it was supposed to, and had him drill and tap it for a Williams receiver sight. Then I sighted it in for 158 grain lead semi wadcutter 357s.

 

Now that is a pistol caliber carbine.

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On 6/4/2022 at 1:23 PM, Eyesa Horg said:

Problem is, you can't load a coach gun without it being cocked.

Apologies Cool Gun, didn't mean to hijack your thread. 

I can de-cock my coach gun by depressing the breakopen lever stop with a car key, when the lever is in the closed position, but gun open, I can deactivate the safety and pull both triggers to release the sears on the strikers.  closing action then allows the strikers to move forward against the cocking lever in the opposite direction as cocking.  If I don't re-engage the opening lever, I can insert shells (I prefer #3 20 gauge buck) and leave the action partially at rest with the barrels partially closed and rounds in the chamber.  To get into action, I have to fully open the gun to re-engage the strikers, push the opening lever over to allow it to close then close and if applicable disengage the safety.  I don't usually leave the gun staged like this however as it is rather a complicated readying action.  Typically if it's my ready for action gun, I leave it cocked, open and rounds in the chamber, much simpler to just close, disengage safety and fire.  I do however de-cock the strikers if I am disassembling for storage or transport.  Hammered shotguns have the advantage of being loaded and can be placed at half cock with the action closed, just cock and fire.

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Several have suggested firearms that may be in the price range above my original $500.00.

If that limit is set to under $1,000.00 this might allow some of the semiautomatic shotguns to be considered.

Thoughts on semi auto shotguns?

Ran across this one:

 

Snip-it_1654608089363.jpg.859d6ae664e79855ea0b617b2e17f762.jpg

Snip-it_1654570463388.thumb.jpg.a6fd4757452d42a8a912f6bde1560f3b.jpg

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On 6/6/2022 at 6:06 AM, Texas Joker said:

If you wouldn't shoot a deer with it dint load it in a defense shotgun unless it's all you got left 


I wouldn’t shoot a deer with buckshot, except at extremely close range, in a survival situation. By the same token, think about what a load that is intended to take out a Canada Goose at a significant range would do to a person at 20 feet? No not ideal by many measures, but I think that rule of thumb is a bit high.

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Any hunting load from a shotgun at range before the pattern opens blows a hole.  I did some tests with plastic jugs and other materials years ago which made me a believer.  For what it is worth, Capstick recommended #4 buck for Leopards at close range. They are probably worse than most human predators.

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I always go back to the box o truth website. Old dudes shooting stuff to find out what it does.

 

Like they say birdshot is for little birds.

 

https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls.310/

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37 minutes ago, Texas Joker said:

I always go back to the box o truth website. Old dudes shooting stuff to find out what it does.

Like they say birdshot is for little birds.

https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls.310/

 

image.png.9b7cec6a794867ec07e1d34894cbbb21.png

image.png.e3c8f4309666d8c4c3a31da3df7d2191.png

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In close proximity the shot column from a shotshell will bloody a human. It may even kill them but so will a blank round and wad. 

The physics of shot is cool. ALL the energy of the propellant is divided by the mass and number of individual pieces. That means on contact they act like individual bullets  and each give up their energy independently.

 

Small mass per unit means limited penetration. And on a fat guy 12 inches of body fat can stop a pistol round from reaching vitals. So penetration is a good thing.

 

Shot placement and rule 4 ' know your target and what's beyond it because you own that bullet and everything it does'.

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1 hour ago, Texas Joker said:

 

Like they say birdshot is for little birds.


#8 Dove Loads, which they used, are a far cry from #4,3,… through BB, BBB, etc… like that used on waterfowl, or even #5 used on upland birds like pheasant. Doves are little birds, geese aren’t.

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Seems like I have seen plenty of studies that would say birdshot, less than buckshot has proven not to stop or put down attackers. Boils down to use what you are comfortable with. I prefer #2 -#4 buckshot myself. But my kids are grown and the grandbabies when visiting are with me and the wife so no worries of over penetration.

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10 minutes ago, Slapshot said:

Seems like I have seen plenty of studies that would say birdshot, less than buckshot has proven not to stop or put down attackers. Boils down to use what you are comfortable with. I prefer #2 -#4 buckshot myself. But my kids are grown and the grandbabies when visiting are with me and the wife so no worries of over penetration.


I should add the caveat to my above comments that when I did keep a shotgun for the home, I loaded it buckshot, slug, buckshot, slug..

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1 hour ago, DocWard said:


I should add the caveat to my above comments that when I did keep a shotgun for the home, I loaded it buckshot, slug, buckshot, slug..

 

I can see when at times someone may want less than buckshot. With little ones around penetration can be a serious problem. Especially when mine was young their rooms was on the opposite end of the house. So back then I rarely choose a shotgun opting for a handgun and light. If I had chosen to use one back then I would have gave serious thought to #4 to BB.

 

 

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On 6/6/2022 at 1:14 PM, Rev Willy Dunkum, SASS # 61027 said:

Or the same in Remington TAC14.  I do like the Mossberg strap on the forearm which Remington lacks.  Very awesome firepower with Aquilla short shotshells.

 

Don't know about the Rem Tac-14... but my Tac-13 has one of those little straps.

 

For those who don't know what that little strap is mainly for:  It is to prevent your hand from getting out in front of the barrel when you pull the trigger with your other hand.  If that was to happen, it could turn out to be messy.

 

Also, maybe for those pump guns, it might assist with "racking" the next shell.

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14 hours ago, DocWard said:

 

With all due respect to Col. Cooper and other "experts," I will add that the PCC, like the AR platform, gives additional advantages as well. Possibly the most important for many is having less recoil than a shotgun for smaller framed or more frail shooters. If that small frail shooter is being confronted by multiple home invaders, yet disables themselves with their first shot fired from a 12 gauge, all is for naught. While not as easy to adjust as an AR, the Ruger PCC can be adjusted to fit smaller shooters via spacers at the rear of the stock. Accuracy is always going to be better with a long gun than a handgun. Four points of contact-shoulder, cheek, two hands-spread out over the length of the firearm, pulling it into the shoulder, along with a longer sight radius (assuming no red dot) makes it much more accurate than a pistol at arms length. It is also less fatiguing, and easier to go into the low ready.

 

So, I'm with you @Pat Riot, SASS #13748 and I will respectfully disagree as well. Considering her size, I would prefer Mrs. Doc opt for my Ruger PC9 over a shotgun any day of the week, regardless of the "experts."

 

Well said. I agree with you and Pat. I think the 9mm PCC has several advantages over a shotgun, especially for smaller framed or otherwise recoil-sensitive shooters. While I will likely stick to my shotgun and Glock 19 for interior home defense applications, the PCC is an option that shouldn't be so quickly discounted. Maybe I'll have to find one for Little Red... 

 

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I have seen what #4 Buckshot will do to a human being. That is what my HD shotguns are loaded with.

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Mossberg 500 series, Remington 870. Maverick 88.

If you look around, you can find the Ruger PC Carbine for under $500, but you asked for a shotgun.

Mossberg has many aftermarket accessories, some of which fit the Maverick. I wouldn't worry about plastic bits. The new Mossbergs handle the mini shells. Budget? Go Maverick.

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I load my defense shotshells with eight .355" round balls, because a 9mm projectile will blow a person's lungs completely out of their body. Six shells with eight balls per shell equals 48 lungs on the floor. ;)

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Ladies and Gents, out here a Deputy can be an hour away whatever is happening.  Granted, our crime rate isn't much, but I've lived in a number of rougher places and I've never kept more than a handgun, flashlight and extra magazine in the bedroom, even before I had big dogs.  I guess there are a lot of bad neighborhoods these days even with police minutes away.  I'm kind of amazed by the responses.  One thought, unless they are on something, crazy, or a pro on a mission, the person who you have shot probably won't be interested in you anymore, they will have more urgent concerns.

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13 hours ago, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said:

Several have suggested firearms that may be in the price range above my original $500.00.

If that limit is set to under $1,000.00 this might allow some of the semiautomatic shotguns to be considered.

Thoughts on semi auto shotguns?

Ran across this one:

 

Snip-it_1654608089363.jpg.859d6ae664e79855ea0b617b2e17f762.jpg

Snip-it_1654570463388.thumb.jpg.a6fd4757452d42a8a912f6bde1560f3b.jpg

One thing about using a semi auto is that you gotta run a buttload  of ammo through it ,long enough so you can trust your and your families life to it. As well as get the whole loading/unloading/immediate action to fix a jam, especiallyin the dark..whole lot more stuff going on than just an 870 pump. Sometimes,  easy is best.

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56 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

Ladies and Gents, out here a Deputy can be an hour away whatever is happening.  Granted, our crime rate isn't much, but I've lived in a number of rougher places and I've never kept more than a handgun, flashlight and extra magazine in the bedroom, even before I had big dogs.  I guess there are a lot of bad neighborhoods these days even with police minutes away.  I'm kind of amazed by the responses.  One thought, unless they are on something, crazy, or a pro on a mission, the person who you have shot probably won't be interested in you anymore, they will have more urgent concerns.

Unless they are on drugs , and most are now days. I also live out in the country were response times could be anywhere from 1/2 hour to a hour. I'm just a Marine and I will plan for the worst so I'm not disappointed. Good luck, which I hope you never need.

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56 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

Ladies and Gents, out here a Deputy can be an hour away whatever is happening.  Granted, our crime rate isn't much, but I've lived in a number of rougher places and I've never kept more than a handgun, flashlight and extra magazine in the bedroom, even before I had big dogs.  I guess there are a lot of bad neighborhoods these days even with police minutes away.  I'm kind of amazed by the responses.  One thought, unless they are on something, crazy, or a pro on a mission, the person who you have shot probably won't be interested in you anymore, they will have more urgent concerns.

 

"When seconds count, help is only minutes away." Some people pray for the best possible outcome, and plan for the worst. I've seen what a person on PCP can take and keep coming until the brain stops functioning. Some years ago, back when I was an assistant prosecutor, in the same township I live in, which is generally peaceful, two felons decided to break into a lady's home. They didn't run when she put the first round in one of them. Both were dead at the scene. She wasn't, and it had to go before Grand Jury, which, of course, ruled it a No Bill- a "Good Shoot." Not a phrase I like, but there isn't a better way of putting it.

I will never be critical of what another plans for, whether too light or too heavy. Just so long as they have a plan, and make sure everyone in the home is on board.

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12 minutes ago, Slapshot said:

One of my reloads is 18-20 #2 pellets in a 2 3/4" 12 gauge.

#2 bird (.15 caliber) or #2 buck (.27 caliber)?

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Have not been able to get to the LGS yet; however, another question came up in the meantime.
If the HD shotgun is primarily going to be kept at home, and used, GOD forbid, only in a most likely once in a lifetime situation, should cost even be considered?
If a newly purchased HD shotgun is periodically taken to the range to keep it operating and to continue familiarity with handling it, yet not intended for any other purpose such as Skeet, SASS, etc., why not consider options less expensive such as the following examples:

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Snip-it_1655037726052.jpg.c0a7cc64abb395b3b5f376014a1e9586.jpg

Snip-it_1655037741086.jpg.fee53652d25c0f59808bfccbd94a6d36.jpg

 

Snip-it_1655037767705.jpg.b984fa2930012b818c3bc738b7f46588.jpg

 

Surely these brands will suffice for its intended purpose.
Your take on purchasing a brand not related to well-known manufacturers such as Remington, Winchester and the likes.
If I was to spend more $$$$ on a HD shotgun, I would prefer to have the capability of using it in another platform to substantiate the cost.
Thanks, as always, for your insight.

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29 minutes ago, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said:

If a newly purchased HD shotgun is periodically taken to the range to keep it operating and to continue familiarity with handling it, yet not intended for any other purpose such as Skeet, SASS, etc., why not consider options less expensive such as the following examples:


Kit,

read this:

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I know this isn’t about guns, but it’s appropriate. This is an old ad by Bell Helmets from the 1970’s. I have always remembered this ad and it correlates to so many things, but in regards to life saving equipment it is quite an appropriate sentiment. 
 

Buying one of those cheap no name shotguns might be fun for fooling around at the range, but in a bad situation finding out the gun has cheap parts that break easily would not be a good thing. 
 

 

Auto Correct: Making people look like idiots for many years now.

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Take a look at the Mossberg Combat Combo. A standard Mossberg 500, (5 round magazine) with an 18" barrel, and a 26" barrel with choke tubes. Any other Mossberg barrel will also fit. 

You could still add a sidesaddle ammo carrier for an additional 6 or 7 rounds, giving a total of 11 or 12 rounds. 

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