Are East German Makarovs C&R Eligible?

[Matt Blasterson, 112488]

Digging out items to sell and have a really nice specimen of a K-100. Have been told that it’s C&R eligible because the gun is over 50 years old and East Germany no longer exists.

I figure anyone who can memorize the SASS Rulebook probably knows ATF regs by heart too, so thought I could ask you folks if that’s the way it works or if the pistol will need to go to a full-blown FFL if it ships out.

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

I just checked my updated from January, 2022, yes, it qualifies as a C&R. 

The 50 year rule does not make a firearm automatically qualify for C&R status.

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

Double-checked for you and yes, eligible. Its on the list. Talked to a friend that works for ATF as an agent.

[Alpo]

13 minutes ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

The 50 year rule does not make a firearm automatically qualify for C&R status.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relics

 

How to obtain C&R classification

Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm.

[John E. Law]

If it's over 50 years it DOES automatically become a C&R. 18 USC 921.

 

However the firearm must be in the original configuration,  no replicas,  no modifications or removals. ATF ruling 85-10. ie a receiver alone cannot be a C&R.

 

Minor mods may be excepted, non original sights,  scope mount,  sling swivel added DO NOT change its original configuration however a new barrel/ trigger etc would. 

 

Also C&Rs can collect a firearm that derives a substantial part of its value from the fact that it may be rare,  bizarre, novel, or associated with a historic figure no matter the age of the firearm. 

 

It can be complex and you can get into big trouble thinking something is a C&R and it's not. 

 

JEL

 

 

[Matt Blasterson, 112488]

3 minutes ago, John E. Law said:

 

It can be complex and you can get into big trouble thinking something is a C&R and it's not. 

 

JEL

 

 

And I’m the guy who trouble would find whether I went looking for it or not.

I appreciate y’all sharing your knowledge and yessir, covering my carcass before doing  something that could boomerang on me was why I figured it best to ask. 

[John E. Law]

If you're just looking to sell something just go through an FFL it'll save you a lot of worry. 

 

JEL

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

PLUS ONE for John E. Law

 

Thru several of my "Audits" I found surprisingly, no two BATFE agents/inspectors always tell the same tale.  For peace of mind, you may find the fee's associated with an FFL to actually be cheap "Peace of Mind" insurance."

[Alpo]

Here's something about C&R that puzzles me.

 

I take my 1925 made 1903 Springfield, and I have it sporterized (hear the weeping and wailing of the mil-surp collectors). Because it is no longer in original condition, even though it was made 97 years ago, it is not C&R.

 

But let's take my 1932 made Single Action Army. And I send it to King's Gun Works, and they change the grip frame a little bit, and they put a Bisley trigger and hammer in it, and put an octagonal barrel on it, with a Patridge front sight. Basically make it into a copy of Elmer's number 5.

 

Well it's certainly no longer in original condition, so it no longer qualifies as C&R.

 

But wait - all this work was done in 1968. 1968 was 54 years ago. This gun was made 54 years ago. It does not matter when Colt made the original Single Action Army. This number 5 copy was made by King's 54 years ago.

 

Is it C&R?

[Rip Snorter]

1 minute ago, Alpo said:

Here's something about C&R that puzzles me.

 

I take my 1925 made 1903 Springfield, and I have it sporterized (hear the weeping and wailing of the mil-surp collectors). Because it is no longer in original condition, even though it was made 97 years ago, it is not C&R.

 

But let's take my 1932 made Single Action Army. And I send it to King's Gun Works, and they change the grip frame a little bit, and they put a Bisley trigger and hammer in it, and put an octagonal barrel on it, with a Patridge front sight. Basically make it into a copy of Elmer's number 5.

 

Well it's certainly no longer in original condition, so it no longer qualifies as C&R.

 

But wait - all this work was done in 1968. 1968 was 54 years ago. This gun was made 54 years ago. It does not matter when Colt made the original Single Action Army. This number 5 copy was made by King's 54 years ago.

 

Is it C&R?

Was the bureaucrat in a good mood or a bad mood this morning? 

[John E. Law]

16 minutes ago, Alpo said:

Is it C&R?

No it is NOT a C&R. Nothing in ATF 85-10 says anything about when the mods were made only that it must be in the original configuration. Since it is not in the manufacturers original condition it is no longer C&R

 

Awesome question though!

 

JEL

[Utah Bob #35998]

28 minutes ago, Alpo said:

Here's something about C&R that puzzles me.

 

I take my 1925 made 1903 Springfield, and I have it sporterized (hear the weeping and wailing of the mil-surp collectors). Because it is no longer in original condition, even though it was made 97 years ago, it is not C&R.

 

But let's take my 1932 made Single Action Army. And I send it to King's Gun Works, and they change the grip frame a little bit, and they put a Bisley trigger and hammer in it, and put an octagonal barrel on it, with a Patridge front sight. Basically make it into a copy of Elmer's number 5.

 

Well it's certainly no longer in original condition, so it no longer qualifies as C&R.

 

But wait - all this work was done in 1968. 1968 was 54 years ago. This gun was made 54 years ago. It does not matter when Colt made the original Single Action Army. This number 5 copy was made by King's 54 years ago.

 

Is it C&R?

I wouldn’t take that argument in front of a Federal judge.

[Pat Riot]

I always go through an FFL on everything. It may cost me a little, but it's good insurance, especially when an error could be very costly.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

FOOD FOR THOUGHT on Wednesday 

 

The BATFE has absolutely NO SENSE OF HUMOR.  None at all.  If you run afoul the BATFE your regret will know no bounds.  BATFE will PROSECUTE and it is a FELONY.  Is taking a chance worth it?? 

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

It becomes tricky selling a C&R qualifying firearm to another person that doesn't hold a C&R license, need to go through a FFL licensed dealer and proper paperwork filled out.

There are also believe it or not some muzzle loaders that are classified as firearms and need to go through a FFL Dealers. 

From ATF

Any firearm, regardless of date of manufacturing, designed for use, OR CAN BE CONVERTED TO USE, center fire fixed ammunition, requires a ATF 4473 and is subject to a National Instant Background Check.

There is a list of 50 year olds that don't qualify, best to check this list.

Best to read the rules, also remember you can only ship C&Rs to a C&R holder directly, otherwise they still have to go through FFL.