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Russian armored battalion lost in the Donbas region


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Copied from elsewhere. A few English errors, I might not get them all.

 

the Q was: How was almost an entire battalion lost near Severodon, Donetsk.

Reply: Because they've been watched the entire time while they started preparing. A Ukrainian recon soldier noticed something 2 days before, and had drones and soldiers in the area watch and listen for everything. He even predicted the most likely space where they would cross, which they did. So they set up a trap, waited until half were across the river, then blew up the pontoon bridge with drones, and had artillery pick off the rest while drones filmed all of it. The Ukrainians knew where every Russian vehicle was at least 24h before they attempted to cross the river. They had 2 days to get artillery in place, everything was set up, and the Russians never knew. They had no clue they've been watched.

 

 

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I think we gave them M777 Howitzers. From what I understand they are dang accurate. Long range and GPS guided rounds.

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Even on the best of circumstances an opposed river crossing is difficult.  This wasn't the best of circumstances for the Russians, who are showing themselves to be pretty much incompetent on the modern battlefield.  

 

The Republican Guard and some of the better regular Iraqi army units fought better in Desert Storm than the Russians are doing now in the Ukraine..

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Posted (edited)

A major failure had to be that Russkies never noticed that a drone was watching them.  I can understand that they didn’t realize that a guy was hiding in the forest watching them, though they should have expected it.

Edited by Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984
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4 hours ago, Michigan Slim said:

Steel pots and Mosins going back to war now.

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I read a report that UK has developed methods of directing artillery with drones and have effectively used it in NATO exercises. in the last eight years have coached Ukrainian troops on how to use the techniques. 
 

I know I have seen Canadian soldiers (NCOs) in Ukraine.

 

Meanwhile Russia is following WWII era doctrines.

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7 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

I read a report that UK has developed methods of directing artillery with drones and have effectively used it in NATO exercises. in the last eight years have coached Ukrainian troops on how to use the techniques. 
 

I know I have seen Canadian soldiers (NCOs) in Ukraine.

 

Meanwhile Russia is following WWII era doctrines.

 

The Canadian soldiers that you see are military veterans wearing their old uniforms.  They are not government sanctioned.  I guess you could call them soldiers of fortune.  They probably shouldn't be wearing the Canadian flag on their uniform, as the Russians may misconstrue it and believe that NATO is directly involved. Some of those veterans have returned to Canada already. 

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6 minutes ago, Buffalo Creek Law Dog said:

 

The Canadian soldiers that you see are military veterans wearing their old uniforms.  They are not government sanctioned.  I guess you could call them soldiers of fortune.  They probably shouldn't be wearing the Canadian flag on their uniform, as the Russians may misconstrue it and believe that NATO is directly involved. Some of those veterans have returned to Canada already. 

It was three or four years ago.

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5 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

It was three or four years ago.

 I thought you were talking about the current situation, my error.

 

Cheers!

 

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Here is another one!! 

"Ukrainian soldiers have driven off Russian forces in Sumy Region"

But .. it appears they were using paintball guns?!??. 

 

https://www.rt.com/news/555639-reuters-ukraine-war-paintball/

 

I could be wrong (happens all the time ... ) but the tank picture really looks like a bunch of targets (old hulls vehicles etc) set out for practice artillery fire missions. FO/FDC gets battery base piece on target (guess the FO is a drone these days ... makes sense) ... then the whole battery opens up. Used to do a bunch of these at Fort Pickett (Blackstone, VA) 67-73ish. They would set out all types of combat type targets (old truck/tank hulls etc) ... you drive around (or hide in the woods/under brush/camo ... eat hot dogs ... watch Batman on your mini TV ... whatever) until you get a fire mission over the radio ... then FDC finds a place for you to drop the guns to engage the mission.

 

Just sayin' ... I am wrong alot.  Perhaps there are better pictures somewhere ... Aren't all the Russian tanks supposed to have a "V" on them?? 

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1 hour ago, Patagonia Pete said:

Here is another one!! 

"Ukrainian soldiers have driven off Russian forces in Sumy Region"

But .. it appears they were using paintball guns?!??. 

 

https://www.rt.com/news/555639-reuters-ukraine-war-paintball/

 

I could be wrong (happens all the time ... ) but the tank picture really looks like a bunch of targets (old hulls vehicles etc) set out for practice artillery fire missions. FO/FDC gets battery base piece on target (guess the FO is a drone these days ... makes sense) ... then the whole battery opens up. Used to do a bunch of these at Fort Pickett (Blackstone, VA) 67-73ish. They would set out all types of combat type targets (old truck/tank hulls etc) ... you drive around (or hide in the woods/under brush/camo ... eat hot dogs ... watch Batman on your mini TV ... whatever) until you get a fire mission over the radio ... then FDC finds a place for you to drop the guns to engage the mission.

 

Just sayin' ... I am wrong alot.  Perhaps there are better pictures somewhere ... Aren't all the Russian tanks supposed to have a "V" on them?? 

The pics look light to me. If they were range targets their placement makes no sense. 
looks like some crossed the bridge and then things got real bad, with a chaotic attempt to retreat. The blown turrets indicate ordnance was inside when they were hit. You wouldn’t do that with targets.

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Wonder why they didn't blow up the building too ... (showing on the left side of the photo in the first picture at the start of the thread).

They probably crossed there so they get a soda at that building. 

W/ artillery that accurate I would have took some drones down closer and got some close up pictures. 

A direct hit w/ a 105 would remove a turrent even if it were empty.

Why wouldn't they wait and hit them again w/ they came in to get the bodies?? 

I can't see any bodies in the photo??!?

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7 minutes ago, Patagonia Pete said:

Wonder why they didn't blow up the building too ... (showing on the left side of the photo in the first picture at the start of the thread).

They probably crossed there so they get a soda at that building. 

W/ artillery that accurate I would have took some drones down closer and got some close up pictures. 

A direct hit w/ a 105 would remove a turrent even if it were empty.

Why wouldn't they wait and hit them again w/ they came in to get the bodies?? 

I can't see any bodies in the photo??!?

I doubt any of the crews got out of their vehicles. The building looks damaged to me. The Russian tactic are not like ours with infantry in support of armor. But the pics are not clear enough for me to see if there are bodies, or parts thereof.

Russian armor has been marked with V both and Z symbols. I doubt the paint would survive an inferno. I don’t think I’d risk a low level drone flight. No purpose in it really.

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So your opinion is the river crossing shots are fake?

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Well ... I don't know ... I try to not have an opinion on all the internet reporting (kinda like the Covid chronicles ... so many experts already). I just wondered why there wasn't clearer photos etc ... 

 

This happens to be the media's playground right now and they seem to be outdoing themselves. Like ... who is gonna dispute.

The link I used in the previous post (Sumy Regioni)  was a story about another news agency telling about another Ukraine feat but the photo they used showed troops using paintball guns. 

 

Such accuracy from field artillery seems just amazing. Even if it was practice I would think something like Javelins or such (other guidance system .. probably US assist .. remotely of course) was being used.

 

If that were the case (training for a Javelin type/shoulder device) you would want your junk targets right there in a bunch ... as learing to use the weapon is what is going on.

 

I wonder what the aliens think about all this?? alien.gif.0ef473766a06cbabd3b0d6b673ac3e19.gif

 

  

 

 

 

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Artillery is no longer a crude area weapon. More like a 155mm sniper rifle.

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Posted (edited)

In days of yore, artillery was directed by a SGT or Looie with a pair of binoculars and a compass, then calculated by a few guys in a van or tent with charts and slide rules. Now it’s more often directed by a high-tech toy in the sky with satellite navigation and a microcomputer.

 

 

Edited by Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984
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Well ... that (FO or GPS) determines a stationry location of a target ... not the accuracy of the weapon attempting to hit that target.

 

Weapons like a Javelin or guided missles are self propelled and make adjustments to hit their target (moving or otherwise). The user either keeps the target in their sights or it is painted w/ IR by a drone or aircraft or the FO.  A projectile fired from a tube and propelled by a powder charge doesn't make any adjustments and there is a degree of accuracy to be considered. 

 

But what do I know ... we should just keep sending money and delay ending the conflict or see if we can interfere sufficently to get the nukes out. 

 

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Published accuracy of M777 enhanced munitions is 10 meters at max range. I suspect at closer ranges the accuracy is better. Given that there is more than one gun firing at the same location and that the same time and the Russians are not known for maintaining proper spacing, I suspect that was a target dense environment. 
 

BTW RT news is Putin’s  official news outlet. 

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1 hour ago, Patagonia Pete said:

Well ... that (FO or GPS) determines a stationry location of a target ... not the accuracy of the weapon attempting to hit that target.

 

Weapons like a Javelin or guided missles are self propelled and make adjustments to hit their target (moving or otherwise). The user either keeps the target in their sights or it is painted w/ IR by a drone or aircraft or the FO.  A projectile fired from a tube and propelled by a powder charge doesn't make any adjustments and there is a degree of accuracy to be considered. 

 

But what do I know ... we should just keep sending money and delay ending the conflict or see if we can interfere sufficently to get the nukes out. 

 

The M982 Excaliber

Excalibur was developed as a longer-ranged alternative to conventional artillery shells, with GPS guidance for improved accuracy. Excalibur has a range of approximately 40 to 57 kilometers (25 to 35 mi) depending on configuration, wita circular error(CEP) of 4 m.The extended range is achieved through the use of folding glide fins, which allow the projectile to glide from the top of a ballistic arc towards the target.

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