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Fastest Stage Time


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No longer compete for physical problems, but still shoot some.  

 

Was having a discussion with some 3 gunners about how fast some SASS shooters are.  Understand completely different sports so apples to apples comparisons can't be made, and SASS and 3 gun stage times are dependent on stage configuration and rules, but those of you who shoot both sports may provide some insight.

 

If there were a simple stage (several handgun and several rifle targets at SASS rules distances) minimal shooter movement with no obstructions)), one shooter was using cowboy guns, and the other using multi guns (10 round limit in pistol and pistol caliber carbine, and 4 rounds in shotgun) how do you think the times of the shooters would compare.  Assuming both shooters are skilled in their sport.

 

Was also wondering what the fastest recorded stage time is for SASS End of the Trail championship.

 

I apologize if this subject was previously discussed.  I tried some searches on youtube and duck duck, but nothing came back.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

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There are or were some videos on YouTube with SASS shooters competing against 3 gun shooters. First everyone shot what they were used too. About even. Then they switched guns. and the SASS shooters shooting 3 gun whipped them bad. Of course the 3 gun people had never shot our type of guns.

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Posted (edited)

It's hard to compare. There is a video of Matt Black outrunning a full auto rifle somewhere. 

It's obvious though that SASS shooters are mo better though:ph34r:

Edited by Tennessee williams
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At the very least, for the fastest shooters, cycle time of the SA revolvers and LA rifle are faster than waiting on the springs on the semi-auto's.  So the potential is that the SASS shooters would be faster.  But there are a lot of variables. 

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33 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

It's hard to compare. There is a video of Matt Black outrunning a full auto rifle somewhere. 

It's obvious though that SASS shooters are mo better though:ph34r:

 

 

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I have never seen a 3Gun Stand and Deliver stage... Sounds fun as a comparison.

 

For a true comparison between sports, I would not sub a PCC into the 3Gun arsenal, though it would mean paying attention to the steel and distance for safety.

 

Time permitting, I would have fun taking part in such an experiment. While there are fast shooters in both sports -- I am not one of them -- I am curious which set of firearms would be faster for me and if other shooters' outcomes are different from mine.

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Would be fun to see an apples to apples shoot, manually operated firearms vs semiautomatic firearms.

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3 gun does not focus on flat out speed in the way that SASS does.  Some matches are limited in distance because they are using pistol bays. Other matches will have rifle targets at 100 to 400 yards. When you see these cowboys vs 3 gunner matches the stages are much closer to what the cowboys are used to shooting.

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3 hours ago, Rip Snorter said:

There is a reason that first, DA revolvers and later semi autos took over from single action revolvers.  Games and movies are not real life.

 

Double action revolvers can be shot faster one handed.  Semi-autos took over because they're higher capacity. ;)

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43 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

Double action revolvers can be shot faster one handed.  Semi-autos took over because they're higher capacity. ;)

But... neither can be shot faster two-handed.  But, both can be reloaded faster.

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3 minutes ago, Griff said:

But... neither can be shot faster two-handed.  But, both can be reloaded faster.

Well, there's this fella named Miculeck...16 rounds from a revolver with a reload in 4 seconds.  Various other records as well.  Then back in time, McGivern was no slouch either.  I do have a considerable fondness for single actions, but it is unlikely one would ever be my daily carry.

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Posted (edited)

Smoke Stack did a speed run on a 73 once.  His rate of fire for 10 rounds was around 400 rounds per minute.

 

For reference 10 rounds in 1.5 seconds = a 400 rounds per minute rate of fire.

 

Fastest pistols including the transition is around 2.3 seconds this equals a 260 rounds per minute rate of fire.

 

 

Edited by Sedalia Dave
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And the other six and the reload to finish the 16 and be actually comparable?  Real guns, certainly capable and interesting, but for more critical situations I will move ahead in time.  I have always felt that from the leather, an SAA was fastest for the first shot, and there are certainly prodigies like Munden and Martin who can do astounding things, but for me, the sweet spot is after single action and before plastic, and that's how I roll.

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Posted (edited)

One of the issues is the ability of the timer to actually record all 10 shots. In my opinion all 10 shots have to be recorded or there is no way of knowing if the last shot recorded was actually the last round fired.

 

Some interesting discussion here.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Sedalia Dave
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1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Smoke Stack did a speed run on a 73 once.  His rate of fire for 10 rounds was around 400 rounds per minute.

 

For reference 10 rounds in 1.5 seconds = a 400 rounds per minute rate of fire.

 

Fastest pistols including the transition is around 2.3 seconds this equals a 260 rounds per minute rate of fire.

 

 

When Smokestack(AKA, the BORG)shoots. It sounds like a belt feed gun.....

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22 hours ago, Brooklyn Slim said:

 

Was also wondering what the fastest recorded stage time is for SASS End of the Trail championship.

I picked out the fastest in categories from 2015 to 2019, 2021 and 2022

10.81 Matt Black - Cowboy Stage 11 - 2018

10.84 Missouri Lefty - Gunfighter Stage 10 - 2022

11.47 Spud - Junior Boy Stage 5 - 2017

13.54 Pecos Nick - Duelist Stage 7 - 2017

 

 

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I shoot 3 gun in Parma Idaho where they used to do the Iron Man shoot sponsered by MGM.   We have shot many stand and deliver stages and the cowboy is faster.  The stands the guns are staged in are at about 45 degree angle.   This makes a heavy shotgun with long barrel and 10 rounds in the magazine slower to bring into firing position.   The same applies to the AR slower to bring into fire position and slower to line up on the target.  The pistol is a different story and the first shot can be equal or a little faster than a cowboy revolver.  Bullett 19707

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Posted (edited)

Ive never seen a 3 gun match with all the targets targets anywhere near as close (or as big mostly) as at a CAS match.   So while I have no doubt a CAS shooter will be faster on a normal  CAS stage, I am certain a 3 gunner is going to be quicker on a normal 3 gun stage.  Hell... I suspect on a "normal" 3 gun stage a Cowboy shooter is going to have trouble even hitting some targets with any speed at all.  A 38 cal 73 at 150 yards or more - with CAS loads?  Doable maybe, but not quick  surely???   That's as it should be...horses for courses.  Different games and impossible to compare in any objective way IMO...

Edited by Constable Nelson #11784
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