Is this Shotgun legal or not?

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Please look at the picture of the following shotgun.

 

Someone told me that this shotgun is not allowed in our game.

I just went through the Shooters Handbook, and could not find anything that disallows it.  

Simple question:  Did I miss something?

[Burn Through]

is that a pistol or shotgun ?

[Rip Snorter]

A Schwarzenegger Special!

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

Unless it's changed...

 

Back in 2014, it was ruled not allowed.

 

 

 

 

From

 

 

[Hoss]

Seems like this came up once before and was ruled not legal. But I’m not 100% sure. 
For my .02¢, I would not allow it. 

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

As of 2021, they were still not legal

 

 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Okay.   If they are not legal, why does the Shooters Handbook not say so?   That's what we go by to learn the rules.  None of the reasons stated as to why they are not allowed, are not to be found in the Handbook.   This is confusing. 

For that matter, WHY are they not legal?   Just the shotgun.  I get why the pistols aren't they are not "revolvers," and that's a whole other topic.

But what's the problem with the shotgun?

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

8 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

But what's the problem with the shotgun?

 

Quote

ROC majority opinion is that cutting a stock down to a "pistol-grip" is NOT ALLOWED.

That would also apply to a long gun manufactured with a "pistol-grip" instead of a full-size buttstock.

 

The INTENT of the rule allowing alteration of the length of the stock was so it could be fitted to individuals for safe & comfortable use.

 

~ PaleWolf Brunelle ~

 

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

11 hours ago, Burn Through said:

is that a pistol or shotgun ?

Yes!

[Equanimous Phil]

1 hour ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

If they are not legal, why does the Shooters Handbook not say so?   That's what we go by to learn the rules. 

I second that. You should be able to abide by the rules by reading the SHB.

 

I can follow and also support the reasoning of the decision to not allow them. But after that discussion 8 yeards ago, some clarification should have found somewhen its way to the SHB, like "the length of pull or style of stock may be altered or replaced to provide safe and comfortable fitting to individuals" (underlined proposal (by a second-language speaker...) )

 

There's another clause in the SHB, p.32 FIREARM COVENANTS, ALL FIREARMS, that imho rather allows the modification than prohibits:

"All parts may be smoothed, re-profiled, polished, de-burred, or replaced provided they are not prohibited in these Covenants."

And technically, it's just a reprofiling of the stock, isn't it?

 

As I said, I support to prohibit those terminater stocks, but the SHB should say so.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Might be fun for a monthly that runs the "outlaw" category if the club allows it. However in SASS sanctioned matches it's a no go.

 

GG ~ 

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

58 minutes ago, Equanimous Phil said:

I second that. You should be able to abide by the rules by reading the SHB.

 

I can follow and also support the reasoning of the decision to not allow them. But after that discussion 8 yeards ago, some clarification should have found somewhen its way to the SHB, like "the length of pull or style of stock may be altered or replaced to provide safe and comfortable fitting to individuals" (underlined proposal (by a second-language speaker...) )

 

There's another clause in the SHB, p.32 FIREARM COVENANTS, ALL FIREARMS, that imho rather allows the modification than prohibits:

"All parts may be smoothed, re-profiled, polished, de-burred, or replaced provided they are not prohibited in these Covenants."

And technically, it's just a reprofiling of the stock, isn't it?

 

As I said, I support to prohibit those terminater stocks, but the SHB should say so.

 

Kind of like how the john wayne/rooster grips are illegal. You will not find it in the SHB

 

Just an FYI, it was an item of discussion at the TG forum this year

http://www.oowss.com/_RO_ Corner/TG Minutes EOT 2022.pdf

Quote

 Clarifications Archive:

There was some discussion about the accessibility of and

incorporation of rule clarifications into the rule books. After a brief discussion, it was

determined that the clarifications are simply explanations of the rule(s) in question and

don’t warrant inclusion in the book. However- it was decided that should an item be

identified as needing clarification often, action should be taken to evaluate the verbiage of

the rule in question and edits made to make it easier to understand and eliminate the need

for constant clarification.

 

[Cholla]

It would make it easier if SASS followed NCOWS just this once and made a not-approved firearm list that listed those guns by manufacturer and model that are not allowed. It would prevent this.

[Tequila Tony]

That is what's called a SWEEPA'! 

[Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326]

just poking the coals but, Mossberg calls it a Birdshead Grip and not a pistol grip.  If I wanted to fit it to my 97, would be legal?

 

That model list does make a bunch of sense.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

What it comes down to for me is that there are rules and things that are not listed in the Shooter's Handbook.   Plenty of pards never visit the Wire, and even for those who do, there's no assurance that they are aware of a ruling that has been made by whoever makes the rulings.   

What do you say to the fellow who shows up with one of these shotguns, get's told it's not allowed, and says, "Gee, I read the Shooter's Handbook.  Where does it say that?" 

 

In the interests of honesty, since I know from all of this that they are not allowed, I would not now show up with the shotgun in question.   I have on occasion contacted the MD of a local shoot to ask if I can use my Mare's Leg pistols.  Some have said yes, some have said no.  I am glad when they say yes, and don't care when they say no, I just bring something else.   And since I'd only wanna use this shotgun with the pistols, it's a moot point for me.

[Captain Bill Burt]

I believe a list of approved guns would be more workable and easier to keep up to date.