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Probable round Count for End of the Trail?


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Posted (edited)

 

Is there anyone "in the know" about how much ammo would be needed to shoot End of the Trail for next year?   If all goes well, I plan to go and bring along three friends, so I need to load up enough ammo for all four of us.   Assuming a typical 10-10-4+ for 10 stages for the Main Match, I figure 800 rounds of rifle/pistol ammo and 200 of shotgun.

That's the easy part.   

How many stages will the Wild Bunch match be?  It's easy to assume 10 rounds per for rifle, but what about .45 ACP?   How many rounds per stage?  Five or seven in the magazine?  I'll assume 5 shotgun rounds per stage since that's the magazine capacity of a 97, but I really need to know how many stages.

I think I can figure out what's needed for side matches, assuming similar ones to last year, and of course, I'll add an extra box or two to my totals just in case.

Any help that can be offered will be appreciated.

Already have 450 shotgun loaded and 950 .45 Colt, but I know I need more.  :)

Edited by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619
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Posted (edited)

EOT is 12 stages ;)

 

20 X 12 X 1.1 (I add 10% as my margin of safety) X 3 people = 792  I like nice round numbers so your 800 looks perfect to me. 

 

Same math for shotgun.  4 X 12 X 1.1 X 3 = 158    If you're using standard shotgun shell boxes which hold 25 each you'd be safe with 7 boxes. (I'd take 8 because I like nice round EVEN numbers. :lol: )

 

I don't shoot Wild Bunch so I'm sorry but I can't help you there.

Edited by Shooting Bull
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8 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

EOT is 12 stages ;)

 

20 X 12 X 1.1 (I add 10% as my margin of safety) X 3 people = 792  I like nice round numbers so your 800 looks perfect to me. 

 

Same math for shotgun.  4 X 12 X 1.1 X 3 = 158    If you're using standard shotgun shell boxes which hold 25 each you'd be safe with 7 boxes. (I'd take 8 because I like nice round EVEN numbers. :lol: )

 

I don't shoot Wild Bunch so I'm sorry but I can't help you there.

 

12 stages.  Okay, good to know.   This is why I ask, to make sure I have enough bang makers for me and my friends.

So...    20x12x4 (Me and three friends) is 960.  So I'm gonna need 1100 rounds just for the main match.

Shotgun will be 4x12x4 for 192 so 250 is a good number for there.  

I'm gonna need more .45 Colt brass...

Shotgun brass I got.  Dad was a trap shooter so I have literally 1000's of AA's sitting around.   Normally I shoot Magtech all brass, and I do have 250 of those loaded and ready to go.  Of course, most of my SASS shotguns have short chambers, so I trim the AA's back to 2.5" which is an easy but time consuming process.  :)  I've got 150 of those loaded, so while I have enough SG ammo for the Main Match and a plethora of extra, I doubt if I have enough for Wild Bunch or side matches.  

Well, at least I have plenty of time.

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Oops!  Sorry!  I misread your OP. I thought it was three total shooters.  

 

1100 rounds?  Sounds like a fun weekend. :D

 

Hope to see you there.  I'll be the guy in the cowboy hat. :P

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Posted (edited)

EOT 2022 Wild Bunch Stages Final Jan 28.pdfThe Wild Bunch Match was 10 stages this year and I believe it will be 10 stages in 2023, here is the Wild Bunch Stages from 2022, it should give you a round count.

 

As the main match is 12 stages, average round count; 10-10-4, with a couple 10-10-6, or 10-10-2, just figure on 10-10-4 you should be OK.

Don't forget the 4 stage warm-ups and the side matches on Wednesday, maybe some more ammo for those. 

 

TB

 

EOT 2022 Wild Bunch Stages Final Jan 28.pdf

Edited by Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118
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2 hours ago, Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118 said:

EOT 2022 Wild Bunch Stages Final Jan 28.pdfThe Wild Bunch Match was 10 stages this year and I believe it will be 10 stages in 2023, here is the Wild Bunch Stages from 2022, it should give you a round count.

 

As the main match is 12 stages, average round count; 10-10-4, with a couple 10-10-6, or 10-10-2, just figure on 10-10-4 you should be OK.

Don't forget the 4 stage warm-ups and the side matches on Wednesday, maybe some more ammo for those. 

 

TB

 

EOT 2022 Wild Bunch Stages Final Jan 28.pdf 905.4 kB · 4 downloads

 

Thanks.  This is helpful.   

One thing I will never understand, even though I've seen it a few times, is why most Wild Bunch stages have a 6 round count for the shotgun, when the magazine capacity of the required shotgun is only 5.   Is a puzzlement!

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2 hours ago, Chas B. Wolfson, SASS #11104 said:

:FlagAm: EOT is a lost brass match.  Save and keep your brass shotgun hulls and use the AA's.

Chas B

Well that sucks...   It wasn't a lost brass match last time I went.   

But, I seem to recall a rule that says that even in a lost brass match, all brass shotshells and Spencer ammo gets returned.   Has that changed as well?

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 :FlagAm:  All I can say from my experience at EOT this year is that all brass and hulls I saw on the ground, stayed on the ground and were policed by the Boy Scouts at the end of the shooting day, sorted and sold by them to raise funds.  No time was allotted for posse members to police a shooter's brass and rightfully so.  Posse schedules had to be adhered to.

Chas B

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4 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

Well that sucks...   It wasn't a lost brass match last time I went.   

But, I seem to recall a rule that says that even in a lost brass match, all brass shotshells and Spencer ammo gets returned.   Has that changed as well?

EOT in New Mexico was during the summer while school was out so the Scouts or 4-H were out of school and could be there all day to pick up and return your brass to you. EOT in Arizona is in February/March so students are in school and come out after school to pick up, clean and sort the brass and then sell it.

 

 Randy 

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Posted (edited)

EOT, now at the former site of Winter Range, which was always a lost brass match. With 750+ shooters for the cowboy match and 36 posses with 20 to 21 people on each, there is not time for picking up brass for each shooter. Considering the cost of attending the match, (match fee, travel, lodging, meals, etc) the cost of the brass is minuscule.

 

TB

Edited by Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118
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4 hours ago, Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118 said:

EOT, now at the former site of Winter Range, which was always a lost brass match. With 750+ shooters for the cowboy match and 36 posses with 20 to 21 people on each, there is not time for picking up brass for each shooter. Considering the cost of attending the match, (match fee, travel, lodging, meals, etc) the cost of the brass is minuscule.

 

TB

 

Not with .45 brass almost impossible to find these days.

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4 hours ago, Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118 said:

EOT, now at the former site of Winter Range, which was always a lost brass match. With 750+ shooters for the cowboy match and 36 posses with 20 to 21 people on each, there is not time for picking up brass for each shooter. Considering the cost of attending the match, (match fee, travel, lodging, meals, etc) the cost of the brass is minuscule.

 

TB

 

No disrespect meant to you here, but I hate when shooters say "its part of the cost". First off, a trip to EOT for me by the time we factor in "match fees, travel, lodging, meals, etc", coming all the way from Florida, is a tremendously bigger expensive than it is for someone who lives a couple hundred miles away, THIS is the ONLY reason I have never been able to attend. If I were lucky enough to arrange a trip of that high dollar of a match I am going to use brand new brass rather than risk splitting a case and jamming up a rifle, causing a squib, etc. So, for me with 3 shooters x EOTs 12 stages, plus warm up, plus side matches, etc that's going to be about 1750 cases.  New brass is now running .35 cents a piece shipped for 38 spl (.45 cents for 45LC). The only place you can find new brass is on the theft site GunBroker and that is the price as of right now. I cannot find new brass in 38 or 45LC ANYWHERE else in stock or with the ability to backorder. Now that lost brass match adds between $650 and $800 depending on caliber to the cost of this one shoot. Not to mention the cost over time at losing 1750 cases that could be reloaded multiple times. I'm sorry, but that IS NOT a "miniscule" expense. 

 

JEL

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JEL, try running your numbers with different assumptions.  Lost brass only applies to rifle ammo.  You get to keep all the empty brass from your revolvers.  Also, assume you will use the old brass that you would use for practice sessions for the warm-up match.  One only needs new brass in rifles for the main match.  (Most of us are not contenders for first place in speed rifle.)  I think you will get lower cost estimates for lost brass.  I figure my wife and I left less than $100 of new brass for the scouts to pick up.

 

Hope you get to EOT someday.  It will be worth the trip.

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Okay....   

 

Main Match...


12 stages.  10 rifle rounds per stage.   

 

120 rounds.  4 shooters.

 

480 rounds.

 

Wild Bunch Match

 

10 Stages  10 rifle rounds per stage.

 

100 rounds.   4 shooters.

 

400 rounds.

 

Warm Up Match

 

4 stages.  10 rifle rounds per stage

 

40 rounds  4 shooters.

 

160 rounds

 

480+400+160=1040

 

1040 pieces of lost brass.   That's a lot to lose.
 

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31 minutes ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

JEL, try running your numbers with different assumptions.  Lost brass only applies to rifle ammo.  You get to keep all the empty brass from your revolvers.  Also, assume you will use the old brass that you would use for practice sessions for the warm-up match.  One only needs new brass in rifles for the main match.  (Most of us are not contenders for first place in speed rifle.)  I think you will get lower cost estimates for lost brass.  I figure my wife and I left less than $100 of new brass for the scouts to pick up.

 

Hope you get to EOT someday.  It will be worth the trip.

You sir are correct,  I wasn't thinking duh, but that's not unusual. However, take half of that cost and it's still a large number. I also didn't add wild bunch either so there's that.  Yes I would be running in attempt for fastest rifle and sxs. I've won before at the Seige in Florida, it could happen again. My point was that it's a hugely expensive to go to the world championship. I'll probably never get to go to due to its always been on the far west coast except for last year. Personally I think it should move region to region each year to give EVERYONE a chance to shoot for a world championship. Not really the world when the same 25% of the shooters in the game get to attend year after year. 

 

JEL

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2 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

Okay....   

 

Main Match...


12 stages.  10 rifle rounds per stage.   

 

120 rounds.  4 shooters.

 

480 rounds.

 

Wild Bunch Match

 

10 Stages  10 rifle rounds per stage.

 

100 rounds.   4 shooters.

 

400 rounds.

 

Warm Up Match

 

4 stages.  10 rifle rounds per stage

 

40 rounds  4 shooters.

 

160 rounds

 

480+400+160=1040

 

1040 pieces of lost brass.   That's a lot to lose.
 

Don’t forget to include approximately 21 - 28 rounds of 45 ACP per stage per shooter for Wild Bunch. 
just saying 

Regards

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

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