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40 s & w in rifle


Trigger Mike

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How well does 40 s and w ammo do out of a rifle like a keltec?  Does it perform better than 9mm out of a rifle? Are the keltec 2000 rifles any good when it comes to accuracy and reliability?  

 

I know they sent several to ukraine.

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Any gun is a good one when you need one.  Whatever you fire it out of, a pistol round will be only that.  Both the Germans and the Russians recognized that -7.62 x39.  Given a choice, I'd take 7.62x51. Don't have  Kel Tec, but they have a decent reputation.

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I've got a Kel-Tec Sub 2K in 40 (16.25" barrel). Following are some chrony tests:

 

4.0 Grs. Bullseye, 180 Gr. TCFP coated, 1063 fps

Same load in a Glock G22 (4.49" barrel), 906 fps

 

5.8 Grs. Power Pistol, same bullet, 1195 fps, Kel-Tec

Same load, 984, G22

 

Accuracy with both guns/loads is excellent (red dots on each).

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Seriously, Smith and Wesson reinvented the wheel when they came up with the .40 slow and weak. 

 

The original 180gr Winchester load has the same numbers as a 180gr 38WCF did in the late 1870's.  All they did was make a smokeless, semi auto friendly version of it and the gun scribblers all acted like it was 'innovative' and 'cutting edge'.

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4 hours ago, Rip Snorter said:

Any gun is a good one when you need one.  Whatever you fire it out of, a pistol round will be only that.

Not sure I agree . If you look at the velocity of say a .357 Mag in a 4" revolver vs. a 20" carbine, there is a considerable difference. No, still not a .308 Win. but it wasn't meant to be.

JHC

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1 hour ago, Smuteye John SASS#24774 said:

Seriously, Smith and Wesson reinvented the wheel when they came up with the .40 slow and weak. 

 

The original 180gr Winchester load has the same numbers as a 180gr 38WCF did in the late 1870's.  All they did was make a smokeless, semi auto friendly version of it and the gun scribblers all acted like it was 'innovative' and 'cutting edge'.

I think the .40 was kind of cooked up as a mild 10mm. Great round (I had one I gave to my son) but was a bit much for say the 1911 type guns, and also for the average shooter. I carried a Glock 27 for many years, now carry a 43 mostly because it's lighter, skinnier, and more accurate for me than the 27. But it also doesn't hold 10 rounds. Everything is a trade off. Modern high performance 9mm ammo sorta pulled the .40's teeth. Makes you kinda wonder what the 10mm may have become if they could have actually made enough mags to go around for the Bren 10.

JHC

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1 hour ago, Rip Snorter said:

Gents, bet your life on what you will.  I'll take a M 1 or an M 14 as first choice over what the Colonel called "Poodle Shooters".

As a FIRST CHOICE so would I.  Depending on the range I'd opt for an Rem. 870 with an extended mag full of #4 buckshot.

JHC

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14 hours ago, Capt. James H. Callahan said:

I think the .40 was kind of cooked up as a mild 10mm. Great round (I had one I gave to my son) but was a bit much for say the 1911 type guns, and also for the average shooter. I carried a Glock 27 for many years, now carry a 43 mostly because it's lighter, skinnier, and more accurate for me than the 27. But it also doesn't hold 10 rounds. Everything is a trade off. Modern high performance 9mm ammo sorta pulled the .40's teeth. Makes you kinda wonder what the 10mm may have become if they could have actually made enough mags to go around for the Bren 10.

JHC

That may have been what they started out looking for, but the end result was a bottomfeeder friendly, smokeless 38WCF.  A .400", 180gr  bullet doing right around 1000fps from a 5inch or so barreled handgun.

 

Then again, that combination had a good reputation as a man stopper in the 19th Century, so why mess with a good thing?

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21 hours ago, Smuteye John SASS#24774 said:

Seriously, Smith and Wesson reinvented the wheel when they came up with the .40 slow and weak. 

 

The original 180gr Winchester load has the same numbers as a 180gr 38WCF did in the late 1870's.  All they did was make a smokeless, semi auto friendly version of it and the gun scribblers all acted like it was 'innovative' and 'cutting edge'.

 

5 hours ago, Smuteye John SASS#24774 said:

That may have been what they started out looking for, but the end result was a bottomfeeder friendly, smokeless 38WCF.  A .400", 180gr  bullet doing right around 1000fps from a 5inch or so barreled handgun.

 

Then again, that combination had a good reputation as a man stopper in the 19th Century, so why mess with a good thing?

Anyone who has seen what a 40 will do to a human being won't call it "short and weak". It hits harder than the 9mm and has the advantage of being made as the best performing bullets started arriving, so never had the bad reputation of the older JHPs that would fail regularly.

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I live in different country than you and need a bit more reach than I trust a handgun cartridge to be able to do.  Truck gun is usually a bolt gun or a lightly battered Ruger Mini 14.  I always have the carry gun, so pretty much covered.

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I got a Hi Point in 10mm.Shoots fine & the price was good.

                                                                                                            Largo

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On 4/24/2022 at 2:54 PM, DeaconKC said:

 

Anyone who has seen what a 40 will do to a human being won't call it "short and weak". It hits harder than the 9mm and has the advantage of being made as the best performing bullets started arriving, so never had the bad reputation of the older JHPs that would fail regularly.

The 40 has a reputation of having a sharp recoil which I agree with.  The 1sr auto handgun I bought (1999) is a K&K USP40 variant 2.  Variant 2 is SADA with south paw manual safety/decocker.  It has aggressive diamond pattern grips.  Firing it bites your palm.  The misses who has no problem shooting 357M in her S&W model 66 with 4" barrel doesn't like the recoil impulse of USP40.   When I get around to finishing a P80 20/21 frame kit I'll share the difference between 40S&W & 10mm.

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