Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Long term costs of firearm ownership?


sassnetguy50

Recommended Posts

We all know that some states charge additional fees or require costly permits to acquire a firearm.  Are there states that charge you after the fact for continuing to own the firearm?  In example, a registration renewal fee every X years or seizure of said firearm like in some European countries.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

I know you have to register your guns in California.  If you move to a different part of the state, do you have to let California know your guns have moved location?  

You don’t have to register your guns in California.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You don't have to register your guns in California. I have lived here for 63 of my 66 years and it has never been required, so stop saying it is. You Do now have to buy them through a dealer, even person to person sales, so they know who bought those guns, but if you owned any before this law was enacted in 1993 you don't have to voluntarily register them. Not the same thing. So no, if you move you don't have to tell anybody anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, sassnetguy50 said:

We all know that some states charge additional fees or require costly permits to acquire a firearm.  Are there states that charge you after the fact for continuing to own the firearm?  In example, a registration renewal fee every X years or seizure of said firearm like in some European countries.

Illinois does in a way.  You have to have a foid card to be in possession of a firearm.  I believe New York and Massachusetts have to have permits as well to possess firearms.  
 

California is interesting as you don’t have to register any firearms, but I believe you can’t buy ammo for a gun they don’t know you own.  Also if you move into the state (not sure why anyone would) with firearms you do have to register them. So it’s a sort of have to register.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Still hand Bill said:

Illinois does in a way.  You have to have a foid card to be in possession of a firearm.  I believe New York and Massachusetts have to have permits as well to possess firearms.  
 

California is interesting as you don’t have to register any firearms, but I believe you can’t buy ammo for a gun they don’t know you own.  Also if you move into the state (not sure why anyone would) with firearms you do have to register them. So it’s a sort of have to register.  

Thank you, that provided a digging point.  
 

According to the internet:

Illinois FOID is $10 every 10 years.  
New York state does not appear to for long guns.  New York City does require for all guns a possession permit (not carry), renewal every 3 years with about $300 in fees.

Massachusetts FID renewal is every 6 years costing $100..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

You don’t have to register your guns in California.

 

Not exactly accurate... see below.

 

12 minutes ago, Still hand Bill said:

Illinois does in a way.  You have to have a foid card to be in possession of a firearm.  I believe New York and Massachusetts have to have permits as well to possess firearms.  
 

California is interesting as you don’t have to register any firearms, but I believe you can’t buy ammo for a gun they don’t know you own.  Also if you move into the state (not sure why anyone would) with firearms you do have to register them. So it’s a sort of have to register.  

 

Totally incorrect.  That pops up from time to time, but 'tain't true.  I do it often.  (But remember... you're not allowed to give or sell this ammo to anyone else without again going through an FFL.  ( :rolleyes: )

 

However, you do have to suffer through - and pay for - a background check every time you buy ammo.  And you have to provide proof of citizenship ("Real ID," passport, and garbage or power bill or such)... and if you're visiting the state, you can not buy ammunition.  If you come to hunt or participate in a shooting match, you must bring all the ammo you will use.  You cannot give or sell any you bring to a california citizen without going through an FFL, nor can anyone give or sell you any. 

 

19 minutes ago, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said:

You don't have to register your guns in California. I have lived here for 63 of my 66 years and it has never been required, so stop saying it is. You Do now have to buy them through a dealer, even person to person sales, so they know who bought those guns, but if you owned any before this law was enacted in 1993 you don't have to voluntarily register them. Not the same thing. So no, if you move you don't have to tell anybody anything.

 

True as far as it goes... which sadly ain't all that far.  :(

 

- If you buy a firearm in this state, it has to be through an FFL, and it is registered.  Law enforcement does have access to the records - I have personally experienced an officer calling in a firearm serial number and getting back my personal identification information, as well as data on where I purchased the gun.  Which was handed back to me and I was sent on my way.  This was in the 1970's.

 

- You cannot give or sell a firearm to another person in this state without going through an FFL, except between  spouses and parents-offspring, grandparents-grandchildren (provided the recipient is legally qualified to possess firearms).  If you receive a firearm from a family member, you are supposed to register it - see below.

 

- For these transfers or if you inherit a firearm, you are required to register the guns within thirty days with the Form 4544A Report of Operation of Law or Intra-Familial Firearm Transaction.  And pay a fee and provide aaalll sorts of personal identification and information. 

 

- If you move to this state with firearms, you are required to register your guns within sixty days of your arrival.  This is done with the Form 4542A Firearm Ownership Report.  As with the family transfers, you will pay a fee and provide aaalll sorts of personal identification and information.

 

Check it out:  Form 4544A Report of Operation of Law or Intra-Familial Firearm Transaction

                         Form 4542A Firearm Ownership Report

                           

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In most of the country, no.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Divorce could be a long term cost I guess. :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, sassnetguy50 said:

@Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 If a Californian has a firearm they want to sell to a citizen of another state, can they ship it directly via UPS or does it have to ship out on XXX form via FFL to remove it from the CA system?

 

Per federal law, firearms can be shipped directly to an FFL in another state.  I am not aware of any california restrictions on shipping to FFL's in other states - but it would have to go to an FFL, not directly to someone like Cousin George in Albuquerque.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

I know you have to register your guns in California.  If you move to a different part of the state, do you have to let California know your guns have moved location?  


Not normally, but I don’t know about scary scary assault weapons. 

 

13 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

You don’t have to register your guns in California.

Oh, yes we do. When I moved back here in 2018 I contacted the Bureau of Firearms in the AG’s office and was told to fill out forms to report my firearms. I asked “Do you mean register my firearms?” The lady I spoke to said “Yes, but we don’t call it that.”

Here is the form. This is registration, pure and simple. 
https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/ab991frm.pdf?


Here is another firearm “reporting” form. 
https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/volreg.pdf

 

Every new firearm purchased after 2014, including all long guns were to be documented by serial number. 
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php?title=Time_Line_of_California_Firearms_Laws

 

 

Here’s some Communism / Naziism in action:

https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/media/2021-dle-11.pdf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hardpan gave a pretty good summary, but Form 4542A is for voluntary registration or "vol reg" when a current resident wants to notify the state they are the legal owner of a gun (e.g. they have an unregistered gun they want to have added to their CCW). The form for new residents (why someone would move here is beyond me, but I guess some do) is BOF 4010A and costs $19 (from CA DOJ website):

 

Pursuant to Penal Code sections 17000 and 27560, any person who moves into California with a firearm is considered a "Personal Firearm Importer" and is required by California law to do one of the following within 60 days:

  • Complete and submit a New Resident Report of Firearm Ownership (BOF 4010A), pdf along with $19.00 to the California Department of Justice, Bureau of Firearms;
  • Sell or transfer the firearm to a California licensed firearms dealer or to another individual using a California licensed firearms dealer to conduct the transaction; or
  • Sell or transfer the firearm to a California police or sheriff's department. Persons choosing this option should contact the law enforcement agency for instructions prior to transporting the firearm to the agency.

If anyone wants to peruse the arcane intricacies of CA legislative insanity, Chuck Michel puts out a 500+ page book updated every year titled "California Gun Laws" (calgunlawsbook.com) and 2022 9th Edition will be available on Amazon for about $25 towards the end of the year (2021 8th Edition is currently available). For those who (like myself) should start posts like these with "IANAL", it's a great resource for understanding what all the Sacramento gobbledygook actually means for real folks in real words. 

 

ETA: some folks may naturally fall into the trap of thinking that the laws would be rational and intended to make logical sense, they aren't. Sometimes I can buy a gun today, sometimes I have to wait 30 days; Sometimes I have to have a background check, sometimes I don't; Sometimes I can buy multiple guns all at once, sometimes I can't; it goes on. Sometimes you need to ask an attorney, and even then the answer can easily be "It depends", and even when you call a DOJ rep they can't reliably figure it out. It would appear to be a quite Kafkaesque dream world if it weren't so dang infuriating. Pretty sure it's working as they intended.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Sue said:

Hardpan gave a pretty good summary, but Form 4542A is for voluntary registration or "vol reg" when a current resident wants to notify the state they are the legal owner of a gun (e.g. they have an unregistered gun they want to have added to their CCW). The form for new residents (why someone would move here is beyond me, but I guess some do) is BOF 4010A and costs $19 (from CA DOJ website):

 

 

 

I remember that list , when I got my ccw in CA back in the late 80’s it said see other side because I had about 10 handguns listed on it . Even put a Browning buckmark on it 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Long term costs of firearm ownership?

Is that you just can't stop at the first one... or the first pair, or the first safe-full  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ammo , cleaning supplies, safe storage, accessorizing , customizing, broken parts ?
Its easy to spend as much or more on a optic than you did on the gun anymore  .

And then there’s reloading equipment. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love Arizona.  There's so much crap that doesn't apply here, stuff that would cost me time and money, and garbage that I'd have to remember.

 

My life became simplified greatly when I moved from that un-mentionable state to the west.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

I love Arizona.  There's so much crap that doesn't apply here, stuff that would cost me time and money, and garbage that I'd have to remember.

 

My life became simplified greatly when I moved from that un-mentionable state to the west.

Same with PA and WV. Minimal 2A dumbassery. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, if I read correctly, or if wrong, please correct me. Pertaining to California Laws.

At a CAS match, you cannot legally help a fellow shooter out by lending him ammo if needed, nor can you legally let someone who is interested in the game, allow them to try out your firearm with your ammo?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

So, if I read correctly, or if wrong, please correct me. Pertaining to California Laws.

At a CAS match, you cannot legally help a fellow shooter out by lending him ammo if needed, nor can you legally let someone who is interested in the game, allow them to try out your firearm with your ammo?

 

Expanding on this, can two nonresidents share ammunition at a shoot in California?  Would a husband and wife have to bring individually labeled boxes?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

I love Arizona.  There's so much crap that doesn't apply here, stuff that would cost me time and money, and garbage that I'd have to remember.

 

My life became simplified greatly when I moved from that un-mentionable state to the west.

Same for us in Springfield, MO. 

Nice to now live in America. 

48 minutes ago, sassnetguy50 said:

Expanding on this, can two nonresidents share ammunition at a shoot in California?  Would a husband and wife have to bring individually labeled boxes?

 

Yes & No

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

So, if I read correctly, or if wrong, please correct me. Pertaining to California Laws.

At a CAS match, you cannot legally help a fellow shooter out by lending him ammo if needed, nor can you legally let someone who is interested in the game, allow them to try out your firearm with your ammo?

 

 

2 hours ago, sassnetguy50 said:

Expanding on this, can two nonresidents share ammunition at a shoot in California?  Would a husband and wife have to bring individually labeled boxes?

By the letter of the law, No. Would many police officers enforce this? Probably not. Husband and wife? Should be fine. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

So, if I read correctly, or if wrong, please correct me. Pertaining to California Laws.

At a CAS match, you cannot legally help a fellow shooter out by lending him ammo if needed, nor can you legally let someone who is interested in the game, allow them to try out your firearm with your ammo?

 

 

2 hours ago, sassnetguy50 said:

Expanding on this, can two nonresidents share ammunition at a shoot in California?  Would a husband and wife have to bring individually labeled boxes?

 

I can provide a general answer, but much of the ammo constraints are tied up in Rhode v. Becerra which is currently on hold pending a number of other 9th Circuit cases as well as other legal manuevers by our state Attorney General to delay resolution - the general answer is "it depends, it gets really confusing".

 

My (non-legal, non-exhaustive) understanding is that most relevant to the questions above are P.C. 30312(c)(9) "A person who purchases or receives ammunition at a target facility holding a business or other regulatory license, provided that the ammunition is at all times kept within the facilities premises" & P.C. 30312(c)(10) "A person who purchases or recieves ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or "immediate family member"". P.C. 30312(c) covers exceptions to the "sale, delivery, or transfer of ammunition".

So I would say that there is a good position to support both of the questions above as non-issues and acceptable practice, but with the caveat that there are other sections of the law that could be used to counter using creative interpretation or over zealous persecution (yes, I meant persecution and not prosecution, actually it should be both).

 

If anyone wants to come to California with firearms & ammo I'd recommend seeing a mental health profession first...then if you're still determined call and have a chat with a knowledgable firearms attorney (or call/email the California Rifle & Pistol Assoc.)...and then seek trauma counselling after you leave...but while you're here help out a pard with some ammo & a gun...and by all means shoot up all your wife's ammo!!! :o :D

 

ETA: "An individual can loan a firearm to a person 18 years of age or older for the purpose of target shooting without going through a licensed firearm dealer, as long as: (1) The loan occurs on the premises of a target facility that holds a business or regulatory license; or on the premises of any club or organization organized for the purposes of practicing shooting at targets upon established ranges, whether public or private; and (2) The firearm is kept at all times within the premises of the target range or on the premises of the club or organization." [P.C. 27950]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/21/2022 at 5:57 PM, sassnetguy50 said:

@Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 If a Californian has a firearm they want to sell to a citizen of another state, can they ship it directly via UPS or does it have to ship out on XXX form via FFL to remove it from the CA system?

Ive tried to ship a handgun to a out of state FFL and UPS here won't accept or ship a gun from an individual ( you have to declare what's in the package) so the only alternative is to go through an FFL which I was told would cost @ $50 from my local gun shop here in Kaliforny.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, T.K. said:

Ive tried to ship a handgun to a out of state FFL and UPS here won't accept or ship a gun from an individual ( you have to declare what's in the package) so the only alternative is to go through an FFL which I was told would cost @ $50 from my local gun shop here in Kaliforny.

Depends on the carrier & gun type:

USPS will do long guns but not handguns (unless you're an FFL) -  https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-through-us-postal-service

UPS will (only to a licensed Importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector), but only from service centers (https://www.ups.com/us/en/support/shipping-support/shipping-special-care-regulated-items/prohibited-items/firearms.page?loc=en_US)

FedEx will only for FFLs (https://www.fedex.com/en-us/shipping/how-to-ship-firearms.html)

DHL - definite no, and also not imitation firearms or firearms parts (https://mydhl.express.dhl/dj/en/help-and-support/shipping-advice/what-can-i-ship/prohibited-items.html)

 

ETA: Realized I didn't address Hardpan's question about removing the firearm from the CA system - you can't, once in it never leaves and they retain the historical record of ownership forever. You can file a form BOF 4546 "Notice of No Longer In Possession" with the DOJ to record the dispossession. I believe this may be one of the few times you don't have to pay a fee for submitting a form. It has a number of options such as : seized by law enforcement, lost/stolen, destroyed, sold, death, etc. There's no option for boating accident, I've looked. :ph34r:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Sue said:

Depends on the carrier & gun type:

USPS will do long guns but not handguns (unless you're an FFL) -  https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-through-us-postal-service

UPS will (only to a licensed Importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector), but only from service centers (https://www.ups.com/us/en/support/shipping-support/shipping-special-care-regulated-items/prohibited-items/firearms.page?loc=en_US)

FedEx will only for FFLs (https://www.fedex.com/en-us/shipping/how-to-ship-firearms.html)

DHL - definite no, and also not imitation firearms or firearms parts (https://mydhl.express.dhl/dj/en/help-and-support/shipping-advice/what-can-i-ship/prohibited-items.html)

Thank you.  My UPS knowingly ships from me to an FFL.  
b) Where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state or local law, such as:

  • (i) from an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector”
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, T.K. said:

Ive tried to ship a handgun to a out of state FFL and UPS here won't accept or ship a gun from an individual ( you have to declare what's in the package) so the only alternative is to go through an FFL which I was told would cost @ $50 from my local gun shop here in Kaliforny.

Shipping to an FFL is perfectly fine by UPS in California. You must go to a main service center. UPS stores will not handle guns of any kind. And yes, you must declare that it’s a gun. DOJ g otherwise could potentially land you in trouble. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Shipping to an FFL is perfectly fine by UPS in California. You must go to a main service center. UPS stores will not handle guns of any kind. And yes, you must declare that it’s a gun. DOJ g otherwise could potentially land you in trouble. 

Is there a firearm declaration from?  The local counter guy said there is nothing different from any other package.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, sassnetguy50 said:

Is there a firearm declaration from?  The local counter guy said there is nothing different from any other package.

Nope. You package it, unloaded and secure in a box. You tell them it’s a firearm, it’s unloaded and no ammo is in the box and that it is going to an FFL or firearm manufacturer. You may sign an electronic form. Sometimes I have, sometimes I haven’t. It’s better if the FFL or manufacturer sends you the UPS mailing slip, but it isn’t necessary. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, .44bang said:

When I die, my sons will take ownership of my guns.

I’ve been grooming them for many years. They are my best friend. I’ve been shooting and hunting with them. They have their own little collection now so I’m not worried about where my guns are gonna end up.

I have a Gun Trust, mainly because of the suppressors,  and Fully Autos we own. It made it easier to list who to legally transfer these to upon both our death, or else these valuable items would be confiscated by ATF and held, or possible be destroyed. They can't be just given to family members, but there is a process and it can become expensive to them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.