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Small pistol primer survey


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I’ve been sitting here this evening calculating some costs. And wondering how many many more primers to order. I finally decided I’m going to do a survey here before ordering more and committing too much money to primers no one wants.

A little background: I’ve recently begun selling small pistol and rifle primers locally as a public service. At my cost. However- they aren’t cheap. I have Servicios Aventuras(Argentine) SP for $100 per 1000. I have Ginex(Bosnian) SR for $110 per 1000. I have Federal Gold Medal SP for $143 per 1000. I can GET Federal Magnum SP for $132 per 1000. 
I took them to Comancheria Days last weekend. I didn’t sell oodles, but enough to encourage me to continue IF there is enough interest.

So I’m trying to find out how much interest there might be.

 I can take primers to Siege at San Juan this June, Border Wars this August, Comin’ At Cha in September, Land Run, Hot Lead, and Bordertown in October. IF shooters WANT me to! People who have friends going to these matches could pick some up for them. 
But I need a feel for how much interest there is before spending thousands more.

Some feel the prices are too high. Some don’t trust unknown foreign brands. I know for a fact the foreign primers aren’t the friendliest with lightened springs. But I know which guns to shoot them in now. And I’ll shoot whatever I don’t sell.

 I welcome comments here, PMs, or emails at: cmjdaj@gmail.com.

 I’m willing to hold primers till I go these matches. I already have 15k on hold.

But I need to know how much interest there is at these prices.

Thanks for any feedback 

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I will probably stop shooting when I have to pay those high prices for primers.

 

I might would buy 1000, just to keep some reloads in the house.   But I would stop being an active shooter except for Rimfire stuff.

 

Just my personal thoughts.

 

On a personal note, I think it is VERY COMMENDABLE of you to invest a lot of your own money to help ensure others get

primers they need.

 

..........Widder

 

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7 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

I will probably stop shooting when I have to pay those high prices for primers.

 

I might would buy 1000, just to keep some reloads in the house.   But I would stop being an active shooter except for Rimfire stuff.

 

Just my personal thoughts.

 

On a personal note, I think it is VERY COMMENDABLE of you to invest a lot of your own money to help ensure others get

primers they need.

 

..........Widder

 

As much as I would hate to give this game, I have to agree with Widder. With two of us shooting, we probably have enough supplies for the rest of this year. If the price for components and gas for travel doesn’t come down next year we would certainly start looking for more price wise endeavors. 

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I gotta agree with the above... 'sides, I only use large primers.... ;)

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8 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

I will probably stop shooting when I have to pay those high prices for primers.

 

I might would buy 1000, just to keep some reloads in the house.   But I would stop being an active shooter except for Rimfire stuff.

 

Just my personal thoughts.

 

On a personal note, I think it is VERY COMMENDABLE of you to invest a lot of your own money to help ensure others get

primers they need.

 

..........Widder

 

+ 1000000

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I find these responses interesting. You will spend Thousands on guns ,leather, reloading equipment ,clothes, travel and on and on BUT, OH NO! you can not spend a few hundred more to keep doing what you enjoy .Makes no sense to me. :o

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Two years ago I was paying $35/K for Federal small pistol primers.  Federal claims they had a 5-15% price increase due to Covid and "other" issues.  According to my calculator, that means primers should cost around $40.25/K if the same vendor markups were in place.  However, it appears that by the time all the price gouging fees have been applied, the increase is now about 300%.  

 

I've got enough primers for another couple of years.  When they're gone, I won't be paying $100+/k for competition shooting.

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12 minutes ago, john brown said:

I find these responses interesting. You will spend Thousands on guns ,leather, reloading equipment ,clothes, travel and on and on BUT, OH NO! you can not spend a few hundred more to keep doing what you enjoy .Makes no sense to me. :o

X2!

OP, you may well want to talk with a BATFE representative to confirm you don't need any license or permits to resell your primers at a no profit level.

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9 minutes ago, john brown said:

I find these responses interesting. You will spend Thousands on guns ,leather, reloading equipment ,clothes, travel and on and on BUT, OH NO! you can not spend a few hundred more to keep doing what you enjoy .Makes no sense to me. :o

 

It really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. An extra "few hundred" doesn't sound too bad all by itself. Add in the extra costs of inflation on, well everything and it becomes a decision on whether to buy primers at $100+ per 1,000 (2.5 times what they were three years ago) or pay your mortgage/buy groceries/etc. Some folks have had to sell their guns, leather and reloading equipment just to keep their head above water. Not everyone has disposable income.

 

As to the original question from Tell. I'm not in Texas and nor do I attend the matches that you have mentioned, however...seems to me that you are doing all the legwork, both financially and physically, for folks that are somewhat unappreciative or unwilling to help themselves. I think the old saying applies, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink." 

 

What you are trying to do is very commendable but under appreciated. Only you can decide if it is worth it to continue.

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I too think that current primer prices are severely inflated.  While I do expect increases and can deal with a realistic increase, I still feel that primer prices are through the roof and that this is primarily due to panic buying and hoarding.  If folks can get these prices easily, then why sell them for less?  Frankly, the only way these prices will come back to earth is if folks stop paying these inflated prices and I am encouraged by the responses so far on this post.  It will take time, but as more and more primers become available the prices will find their realistic level.  If you can't hold out until then, then do what you have to do to keep shooting, but stocking up and hording at these prices could turn out to be a bad decision in the long run.  Good luck and good shooting to all. 

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Tell, I have been doing the same thing in my area.  I found a deal on 20k winchester small pistol primers that I was able to buy for $90/1k, I passed it on to my fellow shooters and they went pretty quick.  I got some feedback that everyone wished I had federal small pistol.  So when Target Sports had federal small pistol I waded in and bought all they would allow.  With tax and shipping I have $130/1k in them.  Took them to a couple of matches and didn't sell any.  I even took my invoice so they could see what my cost was so they knew I wasn't marking them up.  Guess I have a pretty good stock of small primers now.  I absolutely understand the amount of outlay, legwork and coordinating you are doing just to try to keep your fellow shooters supplied with components.  Someone asked me why I would sell them without making anything.  My reply is it isn't any fun to shoot by yourself. 

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Tell Sackett, I'd make sure I sold all those primers before they become readily available again. Because, you'll be stuck with those high priced primers. 

 

Like others have said, I'll stop shooting before I pay those prices. Used cowboy guns will get really cheap if this continues. I'm not retired, I still work 3 jobs. Those on a fixed income cannot afford to shoot with fuel and component costs.

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I'm not going to judge another man's priorities, nor his disposable income.  Primer prices (and other inflated prices) definitely are no fun.  We're set for quite a while even though three of us are shooting pretty much every weekend.  At current prices I have no plans to stop purchasing supplies.  If prices keep going up that could change, but for now we're going to hang in there.

 

Of course once the kids start hitting college who knows....

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59 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

...Of course once the kids start hitting college who knows....

 

We could borrow from our retirement funds to pay for our kids college education and then when we retire we need to live with them.  Or the kids could work their own way though college and when we retire we will not live with them.  Thier choice.  :D

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2 minutes ago, john brown said:

 I do not understand all the whining We have been through this before and if anyone did not prepare than you have to either suck it up or take up Knitting.  IMHO;)

I've been thru these shortages in the past. However, this appears to be a prolonged shortage. It's effecting the number of shooters attending annual events. Many of those events are money makers that keep clubs going through the year. Some clubs and events will not be able to continue on. Same with shooters, some have already packed it up and are finding other hobbies like knitting. 

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After the Obama shortages most everyone around here "stocked up".

I was going to sell primers for my cost. Then I thought , wait if I replace them then I'm paying the inflated/ripoff price.

So I gave primers to some club members and they agreed to replace them when they could. I win, they win.

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14 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said:

 

We could borrow from our retirement funds to pay for our kids college education and then when we retire we need to live with them.  Or the kids could work their own way though college and when we retire we will not live with them.  Thier choice.  :D

Fortunately son #2 (Iron Cowboy) is easily eligible for both the Zell and Hope scholarship, which in Georgia covers tuition and fees although you have to remain qualified every year. That leaves room, board, books, who knows what else. I don't mind chipping in part of that. 

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3 hours ago, doc roy l. pain said:

As much as I would hate to give this game, I have to agree with Widder. With two of us shooting, we probably have enough supplies for the rest of this year. If the price for components and gas for travel doesn’t come down next year we would certainly start looking for more price wise endeavors. 

Doc,

Like you, Griff, Widder, and many others, a year ago I was feeling about the same way about cost of primers.  But, when I got to seeing my and Sassy's future in the game being affected by decrease in my primer stash, well, I reconsidered options a tad.  On a recent trip to Cowboy Guns II I found myself paying more than I thought a year ago I would pay for primers, not to mention price of shotgun shells.  The check to get out was a pretty good one but I actually have a decent feeling that I know our future shooting was extended, and I might get to practice with live ammo a little bit more. 

You need to stick with them cap guns for sure, and would you talk Stoney into that also.:D

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I have to agree with the "I am done" crowd".   Normal price increase is one thing, but I suspect that as long as we, (all reloaders in general) continue to pay these prices , the sellers will laugh all the way to the bank.  Last summer I purchased a few thousand at $70.00 per, and that was about double  the prices of just a year prior to that.  Now we're looking at triple + of the prices a short time ago.  Yes I will continue to purchase them at any cost if necessary, but it will be for occasional recreational shooting, not thousands a month for practice+ matches+ other recreational shooting that both my wife and I enjoy.  

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Thanks for all the comments. Pretty much answered my question, I guess!

The cost if the primers isn’t an issue to me anymore. Didn’t realize it WAS for so many.

Personally it’s worth ANY cost to me to continue! But I can see now that others don’t feel the same.

 I‘ll continue to take them to local matches and MAYBE the big ones I mentioned, but evidently there is no demand for them at these prices.

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IMO, we do it to ourselves.  When product appears, people buy in bulk, and it is gone.  Out here, at least .22 is available in quantity at less than awful prices.  I can practice, plink do most of what I need and scratch the shooting "itch" with that.

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1 hour ago, john brown said:

 I do not understand all the whining We have been through this before and if anyone did not prepare than you have to either suck it up or take up Knitting.  IMHO;)

I guess your definition of whining is different than mine.  I see folks simply stating facts.

 

And as far as folks not being prepared, some are new(ish) to the game, some didn’t have the funds to sink into supplies and some didn’t know they’d need to prepare for a years-long shortage.

 

I’ve now got enough stock to load for the next 2 or 3 years, but who knows if that will be long enough and I’ll be damned if I’ll judge my fellow shooters on their lack of preparedness for whatever reason.

 

Besides, if component availability doesn’t improve I may be shooting alone by the time I run out of primers and powder.

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I figure that if I had to pay in the $100 per thousand vicinity, depending on what primers cost me in the past (3.5-4 cents each) it would cost an additional $350 to $450 to shoot 6,000 rounds in a years time. 500 per month. Now that's just primer cost. That's shooting 3 matches per month, a few less in the winter.

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3 hours ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

Two years ago I was paying $35/K for Federal small pistol primers.  Federal claims they had a 5-15% price increase due to Covid and "other" issues.  According to my calculator, that means primers should cost around $40.25/K if the same vendor markups were in place.  However, it appears that by the time all the price gouging fees have been applied, the increase is now about 300%

I'm right there with you on this. I'm still finding primers @85/1000 in local stores. I won't be buying any for $100+ per thousand. I'll continue buying only as needed instead of buying sleeves at a time until the prices come back down to a sane level. 

@Tell Sackett SASS 18436 I think it's great that you're helping those in need. My opinion on it is I'd only buy at those prices once I'm 100% out and then only purchase enough to goto maybe 1 match per month instead of every match I'm able to make it to.

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I'm staying in the game, no matter what the price is for primers.  Heck, I'm getting both knees replaced (one at a time), just so'se I can keep going.

I'm going to shoot my 4 matches a month, go to the few State matches near me and the Regional, pay whatever it takes in gas money.

 

Going to keep doing that until I'm too feeble to pick up the guns anymore.

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$60 more per thousand, 6 thousand per year, that's $360 extra per year for me to shoot every weekend.  Oh, the horror!  I think I'll keep shooting.  

 

Tell, I popped a couple of those Ginex SRP'S I just got from you in my match rifle and backup rifle.  The dent in each is similar to the dent in the CCI SRP's I recently bought.  I loaded one box of ammo with the Ginex and will shoot it Saturday and report back.  Not worried about the pistols, they hit the CCI's harder than the rifle.  Along with the 5K CCI SRP's I recently bought, I'm good for another year so won't need more, but it's good to know the Ginex are usable.  

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For me, the typical monthly match costs at todays prices;

 

Shotgun shells (factory) .60 x 24 = 14.40 

.38 (bullets only) .08 x 120               = 9.60

Primers .12 x 120                                = 14.40

Powder .013 x 120                              = 1.56

Brass .10 x 15                                        = 1.50

 

Total ammo cost                                = 41.46

 

Fuel 8 gallons @ 4.00                       = 32.00

Match fee                                             = 15.00

 

Total monthly match cost = 88.46

 

Primer expense is just part of the equation.

 

Whining? Not at all. It's called self preservation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Getting back to the original post, primers are finding their way to the shelves on occasion. The new Federal LPP are $5.99 a 100. I have a feeling that it is going to take some time to fill the backlog, but when they do, it’s going to be like the fall of AR 15 prices a few years back. At the peak people were paying anything to get one. A few years later those same folks were selling them for 1/3 the price. 
Once production catches up with the market, and it will, the prices will plummet and then you will be chasing the market and loosing money. Those same folks that complain about not finding any primers could go to the same gun shows and buy the primers themselves. If they are not motivated enough to do that, they most likely aren’t motivated enough to buy those you offer. 

like OLG brought up, you may violating the law in some manner to buy primers to resell. Transporting them may also be an issue. You have already stated repeatedly in a public forum that that was your intent.  To manufacture ammo requires an FFL license, bonding, and insurance. Reselling components may fall in the same area. I have been told by LEOs that forums like this are frequently monitored. The whole mess makes me wary. At the minimum you may have to show on your taxes that no income was made. I suspect you could show a loss by the time you factored in gas money. 


I am not stating I am an expert on this. Just bringing up concerns to think about. 

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4 hours ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said:

Doc,

Like you, Griff, Widder, and many others, a year ago I was feeling about the same way about cost of primers.  But, when I got to seeing my and Sassy's future in the game being affected by decrease in my primer stash, well, I reconsidered options a tad.  On a recent trip to Cowboy Guns II I found myself paying more than I thought a year ago I would pay for primers, not to mention price of shotgun shells.  The check to get out was a pretty good one but I actually have a decent feeling that I know our future shooting was extended, and I might get to practice with live ammo a little bit more. 

You need to stick with them cap guns for sure, and would you talk Stoney into that also.:D

For me... quitting would probably take the form of only shooting once or twice a year at the home club... While I just quit smoking... (after a 30% jump in my cigar prices), I can't see that happening with this little vice.  Fair warning... it's only been a week, so I'm still fairly "testy"!

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5 hours ago, Assassin said:

I've been thru these shortages in the past. However, this appears to be a prolonged shortage. It's effecting the number of shooters attending annual events. Many of those events are money makers that keep clubs going through the year. Some clubs and events will not be able to continue on. Same with shooters, some have already packed it up and are finding other hobbies like knitting. 

 I hear KNITTING NEEDLES and WOOL prices are also SOARING.;)

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4 hours ago, Cholla said:

Getting back to the original post, primers are finding their way to the shelves on occasion. The new Federal LPP are $5.99 a 100. I have a feeling that it is going to take some time to fill the backlog, but when they do, it’s going to be like the fall of AR 15 prices a few years back. At the peak people were paying anything to get one. A few years later those same folks were selling them for 1/3 the price. 
Once production catches up with the market, and it will, the prices will plummet and then you will be chasing the market and loosing money. Those same folks that complain about not finding any primers could go to the same gun shows and buy the primers themselves. If they are not motivated enough to do that, they most likely aren’t motivated enough to buy those you offer. 

like OLG brought up, you may violating the law in some manner to buy primers to resell. Transporting them may also be an issue. You have already stated repeatedly in a public forum that that was your intent.  To manufacture ammo requires an FFL license, bonding, and insurance. Reselling components may fall in the same area. I have been told by LEOs that forums like this are frequently monitored. The whole mess makes me wary. At the minimum you may have to show on your taxes that no income was made. I suspect you could show a loss by the time you factored in gas money. 


I am not stating I am an expert on this. Just bringing up concerns to think about. 

I don’t need anybody’s permission to sell my property to anyone I want!

Or to take it wherever I want!

 

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