Chantry Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 Moskva was a Slava class missile cruiser and flagship of the Russian Black Sea fleet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_cruiser_Moskva It has not been confirmed as the actual cause of the sinking, with Ukraine claiming two hits using surface to surface missiles and responsibility, while the Russians are saying it was due to a fire reaching an ammunition storage compartment. When it comes to major surface warships, Russia is down to 1 carrier, 2 missile battle cruisers and two missile cruisers and 10 destroyers and not all of the ships are operational. Russia either cannot afford any new major warships or can no longer build them. The only new surface warships Russian seems to be building are frigate or corvette sized ships. A lot has changed since the Cold War, but the downside is that if Russia is no longer a major conventional military power, they may be more likely to consider using nuclear weapons. How may of their nuclear weapons are serviceable is an interesting question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 24 minutes ago, Chantry said: It has not been confirmed as the actual cause of the sinking, with Ukraine claiming two hits using surface to surface missiles and responsibility, while the Russians are saying it was due to a fire reaching an ammunition storage compartment. Yeah, ships tend to do that after GETTING HIT WITH A MISSILE! Russians…Sheesh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Kit Cool Gun Garth Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 Merely added it to their portfolio of naval vessels as a submarine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 My son-in-law sent me this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 Meanwhile China has taken up the slack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 In what way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 2 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said: In what way? Seriously beefing up their navy for several years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 4 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said: Seriously beefing up their navy for several years now. Ah! I thought it was something that occurred just recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 About that “aircraft carrier”, she is officially a battle cruiser because Turkey won’t allow aircraft carrier to pass through the Bosporus. she was launched in ‘85, became a fully operational member of the Russian fleet in ‘95. Was often accompanied by a sea going tug, just in case. Quote On 30 October 2018, Admiral Kuznetsov was damaged when Russia's biggest floating dry dock, PD-50, sank, causing one of its 70-ton cranes to crash onto the ship's flight deck, leaving behind a 19-square-metre (200 sq ft) hole. One person was reported missing and four injured as the dry dock sank in Kola Bay. Admiral Kuznetsov was in the process of being removed from the dock when the incident occurred, and was towed to a nearby yard after the incident.[79] According to Alexei Rakhmanov, president of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, the cost of repairing the damage was estimated to be RUB70 million (about US$1 million) and should not affect the timing of the current overhaul and modernization of the ship,[citation needed]though it is unclear how scheduling could fail to be affected by the sinking of the dry dock.[80] The fallen crane was removed in two to three months.[81] In late May 2019, seven months later, information posted on Digital Forensic Research Lab's blog suggested that repair work of the aircraft carrier was underway.[82] That same month, it was also announced that two graving docks in Roslyakovo, Murmansk Oblast would be merged and enlarged to accommodate Admiral Kuznetsov, the work taking a year and a half.[83] Fire In December 2019, a major fire broke out on board Admiral Kuznetsov as work continued on the ship's refit.[84] Two people died and fourteen suffered injuries from the fire and smoke inhalation.[85] Fire-related damage aboard Admiral Kuznetsov is estimated at US$8 million.[86] She is expected to return to the fleet in 2024. my 2¢ worth here: so mane of the sailors who knew how to operate her have left the service, it will need a year of sea trials to get her to be operational again. her fuel is mazut, a heavy low quality residue of the distillation process, thus she can often be spotted at sea because of the heavy cloud of black smoke trailing her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Kit Cool Gun Garth Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 4 hours ago, .44bang said: True but they could be beefing up nonsense, Anything i have learn about the Russians now is that Putin and his Force are greatly over hyped, I don't think China is any different. I disagree. The Chinese economy, while in decline right now, has been much better than Russia’s for decades. They are much more tech savvy than the Russians, having been involved in making so many products for the West for decades. And very good at espionage as well. Russia is pretty much a paper tiger with delusions of grandeur. I think the Chinese tiger may be a real fire breather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 We have our government and corporations to thank for helping China to attain the technological status that they have now. Ooops...had to edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Moskva? Russian warship, Ah frigate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 9 minutes ago, Trailrider #896 said: Moskva? Russian warship, Ah frigate! Yeah, not much of a vessel better than a sampan though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 They stole it from China, it's now a Junk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 10 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said: They stole it from China, it's now a Junk! A Sunk Junk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Kit Cool Gun Garth Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Sheridan Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 2 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said: I disagree. The Chinese economy, while in decline right now, has been much better than Russia’s for decades. They are much more tech savvy than the Russians, having been involved in making so many products for the West for decades. And very good at espionage as well. Russia is pretty much a paper tiger with delusions of grandeur. I think the Chinese tiger may be a real fire breather. I think the Chinese have a lot of good weapons, but their military is completely untested. The last time they fought a major war was Korea, and that basically involved throwing soldiers at the enemy until the latter ran out of ammunition. Most of what they know about military strategy is from watching us in the Middle East and going back to Sun Tzu's old book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 The US army was completely untested in WW1 and 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Sheridan Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 18 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said: The US army was completely untested in WW1 and 2. Yeah, and we had to learn pretty fast. Didn't help us much at the Java Sea and Kasserine Pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uno Mas SASS #80082 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel-eye Steve SASS #40674 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Sixgun Sheridan said: I think the Chinese have a lot of good weapons, but their military is completely untested. The last time they fought a major war was Korea, and that basically involved throwing soldiers at the enemy until the latter ran out of ammunition. Most of what they know about military strategy is from watching us in the Middle East and going back to Sun Tzu's old book. Actually the PLA fought a war, very poorly, against the Vietnamese in 1979. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Sheridan Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Yeah, IIRC the last actual combat their infantry saw was shooting college students and running them over with tanks back in 1989. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Interesting tid bit. The Moskva was built in Ukraine in Mariupol. It was also the ship off Snake Island that asked for the Ukrainains to surrender. It is now on a postage stamp showing a Ukrainian soldier with his one finger reply. I guess they will have to issue a new stamp showing the ocean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. James H. Callahan Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Mess with the bull you get the horn! JHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 4 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said: We have our government and corporations to thank for helping China to attain the technological status that they have now. Ooops...had to edit Lessee... back around 1993 - 1994, as "good will gestures," the then-current administration agreed to sell China a supercomputer and sophisticated machine tools, as well as other sensitive products. Some may recall this being discussed as the "vertical mills sale" in the news of the day. Actually, the "machine tools" were multi-axis (five or more axes) mills with accuracy potential measured in microns (one micron = one millionth of a meter - ten microns is less than four ten thousands of an inch). One might consider these sales to have been the seeds of China's present advanced technological status. [Way to go, Bill...] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Deal is, we were "teaching a man to fish" without regard to the possibility he'd one day take over the industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 12 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said: The US army was completely untested in WW1 and 2. In the late 30s there were war games with tanks. Maybe that does not count as “tested” though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. James H. Callahan Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 15 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said: Man made reef. Fishes and divers will enjoy it for many years. JHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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