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Small, far, and difficult sequences vs big, close and easy sequences.


Captain Bill Burt

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Simple question. 

 

You have a choice between going to a match with small targets that are far away with difficult shooting sequences (less than 5% of attendees can stay clean) or one with big targets that are close with easy shooting sequences (more than 20% can stay clean).   Everything else about the matches is the same, distance traveled round count, awards, attendees, everything.  

 

What's your choice?

 

Edited to add that there IS a third choice, you can stay home.

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Maybe a 4th choice would be something in between what you described. Maybe a couple stages with smaller targets and difficult sequences mixed in with big and close and easier??:)

 

 

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At this point I'd say I'd go with Big and Close, since I need all the help I can get!

 

The first time I went to Alabama State, my goal was to shoot clean.  I shot the Black Powder Warmup clean, but in the main match MY VERY FIRST SHOT WAS A MISS!  I was so rattled I missed the third shot too.

 

I ended up with three misses total, ended third in my category, and loved it!  Can't wait to get back in a couple weeks.

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Big and close is the Bordertown format and it sells out in three days, if not less. Far and small is the typical NCOWS format which most here seem to belittle. I enjoy both equally. I seriously don't know which one I would pick. It would most likely depend on what memories I had of the last time I shot there.

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Years and years ago I went to a monthly match (after the big, close target trend had become common) with the small targets far away.  Lots of people had lots of misses, most were unhappy and most never went back.  The thing was the targets were pretty typical of SASS when I started in 1997.

 

Clubs have to provide what the majority of the customers, aka shooters, want or soon the clubs won't have enough customers to keep the bills paid.

 

 

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Most matches have evolved to big and close over the years.  From my experience on an average big and close 10-10-4 stage, a good time for me is around 22 seconds.  It's what I've gotten use to.  However, when you run into a match that has "challenging targets", my time increases considerably, like adding 8 seconds to each stage and maybe a miss.  Shooting Gunfighter, my left hand is a little near sighted.  

 

To answer your question, I would prefer the big and close matches.  

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Big and close would be my preference. Having access to Paradise Pass- Deuce Stevens and CC Top do an excellent job of putting together challenging stages despite the target distances being close. 

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6 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Maybe a 4th choice would be something in between what you described. Maybe a couple stages with smaller targets and difficult sequences mixed in with big and close and easier??:)

 

 

Respectfully, in this hypothetical that's not an option.  Big, close, and simple or small and far and difficult, or stay home.  What would you choose"?

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Definitely the bigger, closer targets easier shooting sequences. FOR ME a match that is filled with P traps is not a fun match, really don’t mind smaller targets farther away but givin the choice of the two that’s where I’m shooting every time.

 

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I don’t actively shoot in matches any longer (health reasons), and I lost that close vs. far battle a long time ago, as I seemed in the minority .  Always preferred small and farther away. Seemed more like the westerns I grew up with, and I always figured if you wanted to shoot fast, you should try IPSC…  :D

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3 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Respectfully, in this hypothetical that's not an option.  Big, close, and simple or small and far and difficult, or stay home.  What would you choose"?

Curious Captain, which match would you choose?

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I would take the small and difficult targets,  if I wanted to shoot big and close I would go to a steel challenge match.

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8 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Respectfully, in this hypothetical that's not an option.  Big, close, and simple or small and far and difficult, or stay home.  What would you choose"?

Big and close!

 

We had a shoot years back that did the small and far away and difficult targets sequences. You could win your category with 20 misses or more! One guy after the shoot said, "That was more like work than fun" :D That shoot didn't last very long.

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27 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Simple question. 

 

You have a choice between going to a match with small targets that are far away with difficult shooting sequences (less than 5% of attendees can stay clean) or one with big targets that are close with easy shooting sequences (more than 20% can stay clean).   Everything else about the matches is the same, distance traveled round count, awards, attendees, everything.  

 

What's your choice?

 

Edited to add that there IS a third choice, you can stay home.

I cannot imagine which match may have spurred this question.

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4 minutes ago, Tennessee Snuffy said:

I prefer small, far and difficult.

 

Yeah, but your guns are always closer than everyone elses!

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1 hour ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

I cannot imagine which match may have spurred this question.

I shot a match some time ago (I'm not telling when, but you may know) that ended up with less than 5% of the shooters clean.   

 

BTW, this is not an attack on any specific match, I just want to know if I'm an outlier in what I prefer or not.

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Big and close.

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Given only the choices offered, I would choose the Big, Close and Easy match. I believe that the vast majority of those playing this game would.

 

If that belief is indeed a correct fact, then it just proves what I have contended for a very long time...... THIS IS A GAME. Those folks that actually have persuaded themselves into believing that this is a real shooting competition are just not seeing reality. That statement is not intended to say that some of or all of the top shooters in this game could not compete in a real shooting competition... but this Game is NOT the place where that type of competition normally takes place. So you might ask what difference it makes.... NONE.. most people come to our Game because they have fun. They are not highly experience competition shooters, they will likely never be, and most of them don't want to be. So.................. Big, Close, Easy scenarios are what they need and what they want. 

 

I personally prefer a mix of easy and middling stages. Don't care much for the hard ones.

 

Snakebite 

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3 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

If you count 15 to 20 yard runs between positions there was plenty of action.  I honestly felt bad for some of the older shooters who want to be competitive watching them try to sprint that far on gravel, with obstacles to run around.

No doubt that I like the action, and for most of life I've moved pretty well... but the fact is, I woke up a couple days ago and found out that I was OLD. I still like movement, but I'm no longer a Long Distance runner!

 

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Just now, Snakebite said:

No doubt that I like the action, and for most of life I've moved pretty well... but the fact is, I woke up a couple days ago and found out that I was OLD. I still like movement, but I'm no longer a Long Distance runner!

 

Funny you should mention that.  I was watching a shooter recently and thinking 'that guy moves pretty well for an old guy.'  Then I realized, he's about my age. 

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 All depends on why you are shooting the match. I prefer smaller targets at a moderate distance with simple instructions with more movement. I  do enjoy challenges  but as SASS ages and attempts to stop the bleed big and close seems to be the flavor of the day. Little challenge especially for the  speedster young crowd.

 

 

Best Wishes

 

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Of the two, big and close.

 

I like some challenge and movement, but I want myself and others to enjoy the match.  So overly complicated sequences and extreme movement discourages most folks.  We also have to make sure the match is relatively safe, so making allowance for poor running surfaces, etc.

 

With smaller targets and very complicated the top shooters will always run away from most of us - in that they will win by much larger margins than usual.  A few of those top may like it but most would not because they would realize their friends were frustrated by the match.

 

One way or another we all do this for fun.  When too many of us are frustrated, it impacts the entire group.

 

Sometimes a club will intentionally set up a difficult match and warn folks so those who enjoy that will be encouraged and those who do not will be warned. Those can be an enjoyable match for a different challenge but not on a regular basis.

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Of the breakfast selections offered, I'll go with Big and Close. 

Although, I tend to do better on smaller targets that are a bit farther (I said a bit) out, only because I tend to pay better attention to my shot placement.

 

Either way, I can miss 'em just as fast.

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Being the current Range Master for Bordertown, I feel that big and close brings the shooters. Once again Bordertown sold out in record time, indicating that many shooters are looking to the big and close matches to spend their hard earned money to go shoot.

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Most CAS shooters must hate sporting clays. Sometimes it seemed the whole point of the course set up was to make sure no one shot clean . There is a crowd that likes the punishment. Trap always bored me because you generally had to be able to break 200 straight to get in the shoot off . I just don’t have that kind of concentration. 

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8 minutes ago, Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L said:

Being the current Range Master for Bordertown, I feel that big and close brings the shooters. Once again Bordertown sold out in record time, indicating that many shooters are looking to the big and close matches to spend their hard earned money to go shoot.

It’s a long haul from Georgia, but at some point Sharyn and I are attending Bordertown!

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As a middle of the pack shooter, I like a mix. I find it fun to have distant targets that you actually need to aim at occasionally. However, I have fun no matter the set-up. I rarely practice, so getting below my 30 sec. average is a slim chance. I don't drive a Cadillac to the match, so likely won't leave with one!

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1 hour ago, Cholla said:

Big and close is the Bordertown format and it sells out in three days, if not less. Far and small is the typical NCOWS format which most here seem to belittle. I enjoy both equally. I seriously don't know which one I would pick. It would most likely depend on what memories I had of the last time I shot there.

 

THIS

 

I choose the clubs I go to for the people and not the size, distance or difficulty of the targets.

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Why is it that people always assume that the reason a match sells out is because the targets are big and close with super simple stages. AND why does every one assume that if the targets are set further out that the sequences will always be difficult?

 

Have you ever considered that the reason a match sells out is because of the people in attendance? 

 

I have shot matches with excellent targets and well written stages that I will likely never return to because the overall experience was not enjoyable. I consistently return to matches with more difficult stages because the overall experience is always excellent. 


I loathe cliques, nothing ruins a match faster than a group in the peanut gallery that stands in the back making fun of a slow shooter and criticizing others. They think that because the shooter cannot hear them that it is ok to be disrespectful. 

 

Its also not enjoyable when a sizable number of people consistently shirk posse duties.

 

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