Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

1885 High Wall, Browning vs Winchester


Johnny Knight
 Share

Recommended Posts

Sounds like I need to make it out to a few of the long range practices/matches to see the different options.  Ooc, what percentage of events are shot off hand vs with a rest?

Johnny

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a C Sharps rifle in .45-70, had a Sharps long range and after a few years use the metal wore till it would not lock in place.  I called and talked to them and was politely told to pack sand!  Don't waist your money get a good sight: Montana Vintage Arms, Lee Shaver Super Grade Soule Type Sights, Baldwin Sights aka Mechanical Accuracy Inc., Hoke Long Range Sight Company, and Kelley Soule Sights.  These are the good ones I know about.  The two I would not buy are Sharps and Pedersoli ( I feel there is to much slop in their adjustment).  Pedersoli rifles are good just bad sights.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like someone else said 40-65 is one of the most used calibers. 38-55 isn’t bad either. Also check out c sharps arms of big timber montana. They make winchester 1885 reproductions that are true to the originals unlike the mirkou guns. I have one in 45-70. You can have them custom made to your liking sights and all. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/4/2022 at 11:50 AM, Johnny Knight said:

So, out of curiosity, how flexible are the cartridges if you are shooting black powder?  Is there an option to load lighter to soften the recoil with a bit of filler?  Or, do the guns really need the load to work the way they were designed?  I reload, so I can adjust as needed to find loads that work well.

Johnny

If you have facebook you need to join the sharps rifle forum group and the black powder cartridge silhouette group. And there’s another I forget. Kenny Wasserburger, Ian Egbert and others in there will help new people.  I was completely green and new like you a few years ago and learned so much. Get all the free knowledge you can before you spend a dime on a rifle or equipment. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/12/2022 at 3:51 PM, Johnny Knight said:

In looking at the sights, I see references to 'long range' and 'mid range', are there standards in the long distance shooting crowd as to what those ranges cover?  I.e mid is 300-600 yds, long is 600-1000 yds?  If so, I'm guessing I should be looking at the short range sights, i.e. 0-300 yds :rolleyes:

Johnny

Mid range usually means you can use them to 800 yards with 45-70. If you wanna get to 1,000 you need the long range. Not sure on 38-55. Mid range is usually 200-600 yard matches. Anything further is long range. Just be sure to get a soule or buffalo soule sight for more windage adjustments. And some type of globe front with inserts. Montana vintage arms os probably the best in use with flashy looks. Lee shaver and kelley sights are similar but fancier finished with color case hardening and such. Price will show you that. If you want ones that are good in use and slightly less than mva, look at c sharps sights. 

Edited by HamptonBogs45
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well it looks like I've kicked a fire ant mound (Texas reference...).  I'm pretty new to SASS, less than a year since I joined.  So, just getting my basics down for regular matches((though I did manage my first clean stage last month).  I mention this because I'm trying to get a handle on those skills, but wanted to start educating myself on the long distance shooting.  I appreciate everyone's suggestions, as always folks are very generous in sharing their experience.  I have a Miroku Winchester 1885 High Wall, chambered in 38-55 en route, once my ffl gets around to sending their info to the seller.  So, as usual, jumping the gun a bit, as it were.  I figured that would at least get me started, since my main priority is going to be the regular main match shooting for awhile until I've got a decent handle on things.

I've got some Winchester brass on the way, until I can get ahold of some of the longer Starline brass.  As a starting bullet I just got in a box of #1 Ballard 245 grain (.379) from Missouri Bullet company that I will load up when the brass arrives.  The plan is to try and get some time with the gun and sort out a bullet and a load that works well in the gun.  The gun already has mounted a Marples style sight.  I was planning on using that while getting more input on a Soule style sight. 

Probably not the most efficient way of going about things, but I figure it will at least get me started...  Thanks again everyone,  I'm enjoying the learning process.

Johnny

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Had a chance to get the Winchester out.  Couple of observations:

1.  Black powder (43- 46 grains Grafs 2F ) and (43 grains Grafs 3f) was much more pleasant to shoot than smokeless (31 grains IMR 3031).  No chrono to tell me the difference in speeds.  Shot a little more accurately with the black powder compared to the smokeless.

 

2.  Loaded up the rounds with a method recommended by Chas B. Wofson, with a fiber wad over powder, with a grease cookie, and then shot card underneath a Missouri Bullet Company #1 Ballard .379 Hi Tek coated bullet.  Only put a handful of rounds through to test the gun, but overall had a bit of a grease ring on the barrel and cleaning wasn't too bad.

 

3.  Definitely not a fan of the factory sights.  Front pin not very distinct, and a non folding rear buckhorn that doesn't play well with the marples style rear sight.  Will try to get out to some long distance matches to put an eye on better sight options.

 

Thanks again for all the feedback everyone!

Johnny

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well Heck,

 

I've got a really nice Handi Rifle in 38-55 and I hit everything I can see out to 60 or 75 yards.  I mean, I can't see anything past 75 yards so it doesn't really matter what sight I use.  But I do have a Smith Enterprises ladder real sight and an unknown maker globe front sight.  Works just fine and dandy on my Handi  :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll recommend a Lyman #17 front globe sight.   I use the thick post that comes with the kit.  In low light I've added the amber lens, which increases contrast...  Comes with different insert to add to your sighting pleasure in different lighting conditions.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Back about 15 years ago, I had a Browning hi-wall. Great rifle. One time, I was shooting at a buffalo across the lake at Railhead in Williams, AZ. The first shot I hit the buffalo and the spotter with a scope called out "hit on the head." I proceeded to hit it the next nine times in the same spot. When I was done shooting, the spotter asked me why I continued to shoot at the head when the body was so much bigger. I answered, "Well, I couldn't see the darned thing, so I just kept shooting at the same spot."

 

Anyway, back when I had mine, i understood that the Pedersoli only put the hammer on half-cock when you levered the round out, where the Browning/Winchester put the hammer on full cock. Not much time to cock the rifle, but having it on fulll cock when ejecting the round would save you a fraction of a second on each round...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/1/2022 at 5:31 AM, Johnny Knight said:

Looking to pick up my first rifle for longer distance matches. 

For 97.92845737% of SASS long range matches, which aren't long range, a 38-55 will serve you well. I shoot a 45-70 and a 40-65. The 40-65 is a pain finding brass. Starline has them sometimes but they are made to the wrong length, short.

Also both of those are not that comfortable to shoot for lighter/smaller people.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

A word of advice. Most SASS LR matches are more like speed rifle. The most hits in the shortest time. They do not separate smokeless from black powder. Bp usually requires wiping the bore or using an air tube to blow air into the barrel.  Smokeless is bang, load, bang etc.

Edited by irish ike, SASS #43615
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

A word of advice. Most SASS LR matches are more like speed rifle. The most hits in the shortest time. They do not separate smokeless from black powder. Bp usually requires wiping the bore or using an air tube to blow air into the barrel.  Smokeless is bang, load, bang etc.

I gotta disagree... In most I've been in, if you don't hit all the targets... you're out... time is a tie-breaker.    And BP has been separated from smokeless for more the last 20-25 years at most big matches.  Your best bet is not having to wipe or use a blow-tube... targets are usually generous in size, we're not shooting for groups!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Griff said:

I gotta disagree... In most I've been in, if you don't hit all the targets... you're out... time is a tie-breaker.    And BP has been separated from smokeless for more the last 20-25 years at most big matches.  Your best bet is not having to wipe or use a blow-tube... targets are usually generous in size, we're not shooting for groups!

There is no such thing as a "smokeless" class.  There is an "any propellants" class (which includes black powder), and there is a protected class for black powder only.  Check the rules for long range.  As for speed and timing, remember that 10 slow hits wins over the fast 9 hits every time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Griff said:

In most I've been in, if you don't hit all the targets... you're out.

EOT/Winter range  most hits in the fastest time Seldom see a 10, no misses.

Where I am, no humidity, unless you wipe or blow tube your rounds start missing the mark in about 4 shots.We shoot out to 750 yards so that would make a difference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

EOT/Winter range  most hits in the fastest time Seldom see a 10, no misses.

Where I am, no humidity, unless you wipe or blow tube your rounds start missing the mark in about 4 shots.We shoot out to 750 yards so that would make a difference.

EOT is not most SASS long range matches.   It's a once a year event.  And it's still the most hits, with time as the tie breaker.  Pretty hard to put scoring points on a silhouette.    Although a few years ago a local match had a "flapper" in the middle of the buffalo, which counted for more points than just a hit... I weren't the fastest as I recall, but I did have the most total points.  But, again, that match ain't "most SASS LR matches."  And they haven't done that since... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.