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Ouch!


Buckshot Bob

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1 hour ago, Buckshot Bob said:

From a FB group I belong to , guy is all right. He’s blaming the gun . Was shooting his own reloads, so I doubt it . But you never know 

 

Sure it wasn't the reloads  :blink:

 

Knew a shooter way back when I started blew up TWO guns in less then six months.  It wasn't his reloads, it was his brother's reloads.

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14 minutes ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

Double charge most likey:ph34r:

He claims with the load he was using you can’t seat the bullet with a double charge. But any way you cut it , there was allot of pressure there , for a millisecond 

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1 hour ago, Buckshot Bear said:

Big difference between cast and machined steel, looks like a Pietta. 

That cylinder isn’t cast , and with the way it peeled apart I doubt any SAA design top strap would have done much better. It looks like a Uberti. I remember reading somewhere the European proof loads are pretty stiff . So it definitely exceeded that 

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I hope he was wearing his brown pants.<_<

 

Come to think of it, I hope the TO was wearing his brown pants, too.:rolleyes:

 

Seriously, that's more than a double charge.  Probably more like a triple. 

 

G&A did a article back in the late '80's or early '90's about a Smith .44Mag that ended up looking a lot like that (there's actually more there than was left on the Model 29).  The culprit was Bullseye and, according to Smith's tests, probably 3 times the max charge suggested by Alliant.

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This obviously didn't happen during a CAS match, if it did...the shooter was using illegal ammo. The JHP bullet in the right of the picture indicates that it was a self defense load which would be loaded hotter than a target round. It was probably a double powder charge or loaded with the wrong powder but is impossible to diagnose without further information.

 

I was timing a guy I'd never seen before (or since) at a CAS match years ago who was shooting a .45 Colt in a Ruger Blackhawk. On the 1st stage bang, bang, BOOM. The entire top half of the cylinder was gone and the top strap was bent in the middle upward about a 1/2" and he was still trying to shoot it. He stopped and holstered the destroyed gun. After a few moments, things calmed down, no one was hurt and I asked him take the gun out of the holster and take the (still loaded although inoperative) gun back to his vehicle and leave it there. He went to his car but returned with the gun still in the holster. I informed him that the gun was still loaded and by rule was not permissible. He became indignant and defiant. A few minutes later, I ejected him from the range. I didn't like doing it but rules are rules and the guy was being a real AH. As we never saw him again, we never did find out what caused it. 

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58 minutes ago, Buckshot Bob said:

He claims with the load he was using you can’t seat the bullet with a double charge. 

I seriously doubt that. 

 

Judging by the picture that was a Uberti in what I assume is 45 Colt.  There is no published smokeless load for 45 Colt in the 14,000cup section that would make a double charge impossible to seat the bullet.  Even a double charge of Trail Boss will still fit under a 200-250gr bullet.  

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Here’s what he claims 

reload, but not hot. 10.9 grains VV N350 pushing a 250 grain Sierra. Heavy, but not into the +P territory. I think it was a weak chamber wall in the cylinder. No pressure marks on the primer, either.

 

I don’t have any N350 so I don’t know if 22 grains would fit in a case 

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There is also the possibility that there was 2 bullets stuffed inside the case.

 

Loading ammo with an auto-indexing machine, its possible (and it has happened) that a bullet will stick up inside the bullet seating die.

And then the next round will push its round down inside the case and then correctly seat the bullet that was previous stuck up inside the

die.

 

With some bullets and brass, this 'stacked bullets' will bulge brass enough that it won't chamber..... but, sometimes not.

 

Sometimes, we just never actually know what causes such detonations in our pistols.

 

..........Widder

 

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Makes me wonder if there was a squib.

 

Also, it may be the angle of the photo and things are moved from the Kaboom, but maybe the chamber wasn't aligned with the barrel?...

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A stark and solemn reminder to ME to visually check my charge before moving to the bullet seating phase!
I do check them -- faithfully, religiously -- but after seeing this ...

... I will continue!

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A possibility. At the instant the primer when off the bullet moved forward to the forcing cone due to poor or no crimp. The bullet now sitting on the forcing cone acts like a blocked barrel as the powder ignites. The pressure increases but the bullet does not move. Cylinder in now over pressured and lets go taking the chambers on either side and the top strap. I have personally seen 3 revolvers that did this. All were replica colts. I have not seen a Ruger that did this. Not saying it couldn't but the Ruger is a much stronger gun.

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45 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Makes me wonder if there was a squib.

Was not a stuck bullet (a squib is an intentional under load - all cowboy loads are squibs - and I really wish people would quit calling stuck bullets squibs).

 

A stuck bullet could cause the barrel to blow, as bullet number two goes down the barrel, compressing the air between bullet number two and bullet number one until either the barrel ruptures or bullet number one leaves. But I don't think it could blow the cylinder, and I know it could not blow the cartridge case. That was an explosion in the cartridge case.

 

It was also the first shot in a fully loaded cylinder. If the cylinder had only five rounds in it, like it should, there would not be a ruptured case at 1:00. There would be an empty hole. But the case at 12:00 blew up, and the explosion set off the cases at both 11:00 and 1:00.

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A few years back I was timing a regular shooter. Loads his own, but no mouse farts. He is shooting, I'm watching the gun.  Boom, boom, boom, and crap flew everywhere. I hollered stop. The cylinder was about like this one. Top strap seemed OK. He put the gun down to check his pants.

NO difference in boom and or observed recoil. He even said it felt like a regular round.

It was a real Colt.

He sent to to them thinking something was bad. Colt said overloaded?????????

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18 minutes ago, Alpo said:

Was not a stuck bullet (a squib is an intentional under load - all cowboy loads are squibs - and I really wish people would quit calling stuck bullets squibs).

 

A stuck bullet could cause the barrel to blow, as bullet number two goes down the barrel, compressing the air between bullet number two and bullet number one until either the barrel ruptures or bullet number one leaves. But I don't think it could blow the cylinder, and I know it could not blow the cartridge case. That was an explosion in the cartridge case.

 

It was also the first shot in a fully loaded cylinder. If the cylinder had only five rounds in it, like it should, there would not be a ruptured case at 1:00. There would be an empty hole. But the case at 12:00 blew up, and the explosion set off the cases at both 11:00 and 1:00.


In my experience and what I was taught in the Navy and since then a “Squib” is an underpowered load that results in a blocked barrel. 
 

Just a few examples for reference. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squib_load
 

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/rifleman-q-a-what-is-a-squib-load/
 

https://www.nrafamily.org/content/how-to-handle-squib-loads-and-hangfires-2/
 

https://www.ssusa.org/content/what-are-the-differences-between-a-squib-load-a-misfire-and-a-hangfire/
 

https://www.range365.com/what-is-squib-load/

 

 

Oh, and to be clear - None of my "Cowboy Loads" are squibs or under powered. ;)

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I'm aware that the entire world has started to call a stuck bullet a squib.

 

Just about everyone but me calls a chin strap a stampede string, and a neckerchief a wild rag. It does not make it right.

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I saw a Ruger 357 in just such a condition.  He said he was experimenting with Bullseye.

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I guarantee my Cowboy loads are not squibs. :lol:

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9 hours ago, Buckshot Bob said:

From a FB group I belong to , guy is all right. He’s blaming the gun . Was shooting his own reloads, so I doubt it . But you never know 

Of COURSE it was the gun!  It just “went off”!!:blink:

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55 minutes ago, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said:

Of COURSE it was the gun!  It just “went off”!!:blink:

Guns are the root of all evil.  :D  :D

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3 hours ago, Alpo said:

I'm aware that the entire world has started to call a stuck bullet a squib.

 

Just about everyone but me calls a chin strap a stampede string, and a neckerchief a wild rag. It does not make it right.

I guess you are the only one that’s right then. You WIN!!! :lol::lol::D

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3 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

Anyone who is doing the over the counter pain pill thing ( I was taking 1500 MG of Ibuprofen a day) wearing knee supports, and not doing a lot.  Based on a couple of gifts from my kids, I am pretty much pain free, no knee supports - if I overdo, the occasional pill.  No guarantee, I have no involvement with either company, and as a physicians son was no true believer in alternative treatments.  PM Me, I'll share the info and you can research it.  Those gifts are the only reason I'm back thinking about shooting some matches.


 Military none of my are OTC , That being said I dont take them except when really needed , Even then they just take the edge off . Most people would crap if they saw my take off the edge .

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