July Smith Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Maybe this has been asked before, but just looking for a simple yes or no answer. I have a 36cal percussion Uberti 1862 with a 6.5" barrel. I would like to use this gun for SASS pocket pistol side matches. From the most current rule book. "POCKET PISTOLS AND DERRINGERS Pocket pistols and Derringers are popular for use in side matches and are occasionally introduced as an additional firearm in main match stages. - A pocket pistol is a small frame, fixed sight, pre-1900 design revolver having a barrel length of four inches or less. Pocket pistols must be .31 caliber or larger. Model “P” Colts and clones and revolvers with swing out cylinders are specifically not allowed regardless of caliber, frame size, or barrel length. Colt Model 1877 DA revolvers are LEGAL for use as pocket pistols. Pocket pistols may not be used as or converted to main match revolvers. - A Derringer is defined as an external hammer, fixed sight, breech loading or percussion ignition, small frame pre-1900 design firearm having one to four barrels up to three and one-half inches long. Derringers must be .22 caliber or larger. The Remington style over/under barrel configuration and the Sharps fourbarreled Pepperbox are typical SASS legal Derringers - .22 Magnum ammunition is not allowed." Can I simply trim the barrel of my current Uberti 1862 to 4" or less and have a SASS legal pocket pistol? The part of the rule book that confuses me a little is, "pocket pistols may not be used as or converted to main match revolvers." If I am reading that correctly I cannot make a pocket gun into a main match gun, but it doesn't seem to prohibit me from taking a match gun and converting it into a pocket gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Spade Mikey Wilson Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 I believe you read it correctly. Looks like you can cut the barrel back to 4" and meet the pocket pistol requirement. You just cannot use it as a main match pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tully Mars Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Taylors sells a 3 1/2" barrel for the 62', unfortunately they are not in stock. My wife shoots 62's in Frontiersman, I had hoped to find a replacement short barrel for pocket pistol side matches. Yes you can cut the barrel to 4" and have a legal pocket pistol. I've never understood why they can't be used as a main match revolver either. Five shot 1862's have been used in Frontiersman or Plainsman without issue using the hammer notch on the cylinder without issue, why couldn't a 4" pistol be used for both? Does anyone know? Tully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 29 minutes ago, Tully Mars said: Taylors sells a 3 1/2" barrel for the 62', unfortunately they are not in stock. My wife shoots 62's in Frontiersman, I had hoped to find a replacement short barrel for pocket pistol side matches. Yes you can cut the barrel to 4" and have a legal pocket pistol. I've never understood why they can't be used as a main match revolver either. Five shot 1862's have been used in Frontiersman or Plainsman without issue using the hammer notch on the cylinder without issue, why couldn't a 4" pistol be used for both? Does anyone know? Tully The Uberti Model 1862 has a hammer safety pin between the chambers that allows the hammer to safely rest, with no chance of accidently engaging a percussion cap. So yes, it can be used as a main match gun with 5 charged chambers. Since it's a .36, it meets all requirements for a main match gun. "- Five-shot revolvers may load five rounds, but the hammer must rest on a dummy chamber or safety slot/pin in the cylinder to avoid the hammer resting on a live round/cap." SHB pg 13 The only drawback to the smaller framed Uberti/Colt revolvers is that the action parts are smaller and more delicate. They don't hold up as well as the Pietta "1862", (which isn't an 1862, it's an 1851 6-shot with a different barrel and loading lever assembly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tully Mars Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, McCandless said: The Uberti Model 1862 has a hammer safety position between the chambers that allows the hammer to safely rest, with no chance of accidently engaging a percussion cap. So yes, it can be used as a main match gun with 5 charged chambers. Since it's a .36, it meets all requirements for a main match gun. "- Five-shot revolvers may load five rounds, but the hammer must rest on a dummy chamber or safety slot/pin in the cylinder to avoid the hammer resting on a live round/cap." SHB pg 13 The only drawback to the smaller framed Uberti/Colt revolvers is that the action parts are smaller and more delicate. They don't hold up as well as the Pietta "1862", (which isn't an 1862, it's an 1851 6-shot with a different barrel and loading lever assembly). McCandless, We're in agreement that the 1862 can be used as a main match pistol. What I don't understand is, "Pocket pistols may not be used as or converted to main match revolvers." This would imply that an 1862 that was used at a PP side match, could not be used in the match. I'm certain there is a logical reason, but it escapes me. The above quote is from the SHB regarding Pocket Pistols. I do not have access to the page number. Tully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 I don’t believe it would be allowed as it could be converted to a main match revolver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waimea Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 I could wrong as it has happened before, not sure how many times, my wife would know. ANYWAY, I think the original intent for pocket pistols in SASS was to use guns that could not qualify as main match guns. Not sure why the rule says MAY NOT instead of CAN NOT. I have a S&W model 1 1/2 that I would love to shoot in a match. Cowboys had backup guns too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 If Pietta's '62 is on their '51 frame, then wouldn't it be considered a full-size (main match) gun and not eligible for pocket pistol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 2 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: If Pietta's '62 is on their '51 frame, then wouldn't it be considered a full-size (main match) gun and not eligible for pocket pistol? Yep, the Pietta has a full-size frame where the Uberti is a smaller frame, although I don't know if the Uberti would meet the definition of "small frame". A quote from Colorado Coffinmaker on July 17, 2018 "The Uberti 1862 is a Royal PITA to set up to run reliably for CAS. The hand spring is super fragile and the frame is small enough to make coil spring and plunger a bit of a challenge. Correcting the Barrel to Arbor fit can also be real fun. If you get one to run, it's going to beat your middle finger into submission. I really can't recommend one as other than a novelty." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 “Small frame” is pretty objective. but as this pistol would be main match legal, I dont think it would be pocket pistol legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
July Smith Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 The Uberti 1862 I have is the same smaller frame size as the 31cal 1849 pocket. The cylinder and water table of the frame have a slight step in it to accommodate the larger 36cal cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
July Smith Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 3 hours ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said: I don’t believe it would be allowed as it could be converted to a main match revolver. 10 minutes ago, Hoss said: “Small frame” is pretty objective. but as this pistol would be main match legal, I dont think it would be pocket pistol legal. Again from the rule book, "pocket pistols may not be used as or converted to main match revolvers." I won't be able to use this as main match gun and that's fine but the way I am reading the rules I should be fine using this particular Uberti small frame gun with a barrel that is less than 4". Was hoping @PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L or somebody would comment with a definitive "yes" or "no" answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, July Smith said: The Uberti 1862 I have is the same smaller frame size as the 31cal 1849 pocket. The cylinder and water table of the frame have a slight step in it to accommodate the larger 36cal cylinder. Yes, but does it meet the requirement of smallness as in "small frame", which is usually like a little Harrington & Richardson, H&A, S&W, (ad nauseum) revolver that fits in the palm of your hand? Since it can also be used as a main-match gun, you might want to send a note to a member of the ROC and ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tully Mars Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 The .36 caliber, 5 shot Uberti or Colt 1862 (not the Pietta) with a 4" barrel meets the definition of a pocket pistol. It's essentially an 1849 in 36 caliber. A pocket pistol is a small frame, fixed sight, pre-1900 design revolver having a barrel length of four inches or less. Pocket pistols must be .31 caliber or larger. In regards to smaller parts, ours have shot several Frontiersmen and Plainsman matches over the years without issues. Tully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 5 minutes ago, Tully Mars said: The .36 caliber, 5 shot Uberti or Colt 1862 (not the Pietta) with a 4" barrel meets the definition of a pocket pistol. It's essentially an 1849 in 36 caliber. A pocket pistol is a small frame, fixed sight, pre-1900 design revolver having a barrel length of four inches or less. Pocket pistols must be .31 caliber or larger. In regards to smaller parts, ours have shot several Frontiersmen and Plainsman matches over the years without issues. Tully If that’s the only criteria,then a .32 Ruger baby vaquero with a 3” barrel would be a legal pocket pistol too. And if that’s the case, I have some work to do. But I don’t think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Rugers are excluded, I believe, by the "Colt P model and clone" exclusion.... even smaller versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 47 minutes ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said: If that’s the only criteria,then a .32 Ruger baby vaquero with a 3” barrel would be a legal pocket pistol too. And if that’s the case, I have some work to do. But I don’t think it is. It is a main match pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tully Mars Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 July Smith, I've reached out to PaleWolf for clarification. It might take a bit of time, but he will get back to us. My argument for the 1862 Colt/Uberti is it was a true pocket pistol of the time period, and with a 4" barrel it meets the SHB definition of a PP. I interpret, "Pocket pistols may not be used as or converted to main match revolvers." As long as the pistol isn't used in the main match, of which it was used as a PP in the side match, there is no issue. We'll see what he says. If he doesn't respond here, I'll post his response. Tully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 im a small guy , i think my pockets are way more limiting than some folks that have the build for it , i have a S&W no1 in 22 short , i have all i can do to feel comfortable carrying it it in my pocket but it is definitely intended as a pocket pistol , i guess a coat pocket - not the front pocket of my jeans , i need to learn to wear a vest or jacket i guess , when i quit wearing a suit for work/then sport coats and went to casual wear i lost a bunch of larger ...less conspicuous ...pockets , cowboys musta had more generous pockets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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