Looking for caliber/rifle suggestions

[Tennessee Trapper Tom]

Since I’ve had my shoulders replaced I haven’t been able to shoot my long range and heavy calibers. Sold all of them, to include most shotguns. Doc keeps warning me.

 

so I’m looking for a rifle in a big game(elk comes to mind). I want at least a 400 yard gun. ( I would not shoot past 200 but want to be accurate at twice my kill range) family rule.  Anyway. I’m thinking a .308. I’ve been looking at either a sig cross or an ar10. I’d rather of course have a solid wood rifle. 

 

Concern is recoil. I’m willing to sell more of my collectibles in order to get what I need. 

 

Id love suggestions.

[Pat Riot]

I have no experience for guidance on this. But, what I do when I have questions is I do some searches. If you peruse the links in this DuckDuckGo search you will find some interesting info that may help. 
 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=recoil ar10 vs bolt rifle&ia=web
 

 

[Rip Snorter]

Something else https://www.fieldandstream.com/12-best-rifle-cartridges-for-elk-hunting/

[Eyesa Horg]

Accolades on your hunting ethic.

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

I shoot an AR10 in 308. Lighter than a hunting rifle but it does kick pretty good.

[Rip Snorter]

There is a lot of info available on the relationship between rifle weight and recoil.  I've had my right shoulder repaired and I shoot African game calibers.  I do wear little sissy pad under my shirt, but not a replacement, just rotator cuff.

[Subdeacon Joe]

I've never been elk hunting but I knew two guys that used both 6.5 x 55 Mauser and 7 x 57 Mauser quite successfully for elk.

 

The 6.5mm is a phenomenally accurate round and with the proper bullet should be reliable to 400 yards.

 

The 7mm is just an all around good and reliable round.

 

Added:

 

Both, especially the 6.5, have very mild recoil.

[Pat Riot]

Here’s another good reference for recoil energy vs rifle weight. 
 

https://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

[Trailrider #896]

You might look at 6mm Remington with a fast-twist barrel with 100gr PtSP. bullets. 

[Yellowhouse Sam # 25171]

Another vote for the 6.5x55 Swede

[J.D. Daily]

I would expect the lightest recoiling rifle would be a Benelli R1 with a ComforTech stock of the SBE II & III shotgun.  The stock does reduce the recoil impulse of 3" 12ga shot shells.  The rifle comes in 308, 30-06, 338 & 300 Win Mag

 

P.S.  While I am sure it is effective in reducing the felt recoil of 3 1/2" shot shells, right after I bought my SBEII I bought a box each of 3" & 3 1/2" steel shot shells to compare the recoil of each.  I twice loaded a 3 1/2" followed by a 3" in the magazine & 2 3/4" in the chamber.  I perceived a small increase in recoil from the 3" over the 2 3/4".  The recoil from the 3 1/2" over the 3" felt like 100% increase.  I still have 23 shells in the box of 3 1/2".

[Tennessee Trapper Tom]

Thanks cowboys. I have bought a recoil pad for my shoulder, and I also bought a slip on recoil pad.  I have a friend that owns a rifle range gun shop combo. He has a large inventory and I can rent to try a few and see how I deal with the recoil. You have provided with a lot of good information. Thanks again

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

My dad, Blue Boy was sensitive to recoil. He hunted for years(dear, no elk) with a Savage 99 in .308 and I never heard him complain about recoil. I shot lots of 7.62 Nato in the Army and dont remember recoil being excessive. I was much younger.

 

Imis

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

I feel ya can not go wrong with a 30-06 

 

  the 6.5x55 , the 7x57 Mau , the 8x57 are also good rounds 

 

   CB 

[Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022]

The AR - 10 is a heavier rifle than most bolt rifles. The felt recoil is less than most bolt guns, but that difference  is enough to make the AR-10 seem softer on the shoulder.  A PAST recoil pad on the shoulder and should be pretty easy to shoot.  I don't know your physical size or weight, but that does affect what rifle you may be comfortable shooting.Another difference is how you will shoot; standing vs sitting vs prone. Prone is hard on shoulders.  Sitting is  easier, but standing seems to be at least for me, the least felt recoil with the same ammo.  To hunt elk with a .308 Win you would be best shooting a bullet of 180 grains or more.  That in an AR -10 might be an issue to fit into the magazine. 

 

Your best bet is to round up several rifles and try them.  Oh  yeah..... .338 Lapua is definitely out

[Buckshot Sheridan]

How much weight are you willing to deal with, and is a muzzle brake out of the question?

[Chantry]

I'll add my vote for 6.5X55.  I've read that it is commonly used on elk in Sweden.  And I'll recommend the the Tikka T3X which is currently in production or if you want to spend more money and do some searching, the Steyr Prohunter in 6.5x55.

 

Do your research, but I own a Tikka T3 Tactical in .223 and the quality of the barrel and action is very good to excellent for a full production rifle. 

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

Any of the moderate 6.5 with 120-140 grain bullets:

6.5 swede, 260 remington, 6.5 Creedmore

 

Likewise, the 7-08, 7x57 mauser, 280 Rem and 270 winchester are all great.

 

Don’t exclude a 25-06 or 243. Unless you are just uncomfortable flinging 100 grainers at elk, it is fine for any deer or black bear.

 

There are others, but these all pretty much punch the same size holes and using similarly constructed bullets, put in the same place, produce the same kind of results. Ignore the gun writer blogs. Better bullets and better powders have made the vanilla calibers better.

 

Ammo availability lends itself to the 7-08, 6.5 creedmore and 270 right now.

 

The 308 based cases tend to run at higher pressures and have more recoil velocity, hence more perceived recoil. At least in our guns it seems that way.

 

Id pick a 270 and call it a day.

If that recoil is too much, any of the mentioned 6.5’s.

If you elk hunt, you’re gonna walk. A week lugging a 9#+ rifle is no fun along with your other gear. Im taking a lightweight 270 next time rather than my trusty -06.

 

 

[bgavin]

OP, if you reload, you can download the 30-06 to nearly any recoil level you want.
Velocity is the most significant portion of the recoil equation.

AA 5744 / Buffalo Rifle and H4895 are both published in reduced loads down to 60% of max.
 

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

For those who may get a replacement it's tough to deal with recoil. They don't use the original socket. They cut the end of the humerus off and install socket. They then screw in place a new ball into your scapula. The deal is the new joint is moved inward removing the ability to put the rifle butt into your arm pit. Now it would be on top of the new joint.....OW.

 And prone is a bad deal as you tend to hit your collar bone.  OWWWWWW

Recoil pads are your friend. Thick and soft as you can get.

[Sedalia Dave]

 

High quality magnum recoil pads will be your friend. As will a heavier rifle.

[Sedalia Dave]

51 minutes ago, bgavin said:

OP, if you reload, you can download the 30-06 to nearly any recoil level you want.
Velocity is the most significant portion of the recoil equation.

AA 5744 / Buffalo Rifle and H4895 are both published in reduced loads down to 60% of max.
 

 

Any down loading of rounds you do is going to impact their ability to effect a clean kill.  Hunting ammo is designed for a specific class of game and the manufacturers assume the round will be traveling at velocities close to factory ammo. The bullets need the kinetic energy to properly expand. Too slow and they will fail to expand properly.

 

 

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

48 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Any down loading of rounds you do is going to impact their ability to effect a clean kill.  Hunting ammo is designed for a specific class of game and the manufacturers assume the round will be traveling at velocities close to factory ammo. The bullets need the kinetic energy to properly expand. Too slow and they will fail to expand properly.

 

 

Absolutely.

There is penetration also to consider. If reloading and keeping traditional cup and core bullets at impact velocities 1800- 2700 fps, its pretty much good to go.

We reload simple Sierra Prohunters for 30-30 ( 170's at 2100 or so and 150's at 2300 or so, I forget)and Hornady interlocks for 260, 270 and 30-06  to factory velocities with no worries. The Speer bullets work good for us too. Bang flop usually. May have one run 40, 50, 60, 70 yards. They are no doubt dead and whose to say what game will do outside of a CNS shot.  I have loaded partitions, but doubt I'd ever have the need for them (spending more on bullets doesn't increase my confidence over what I have been using., they are far less accurate in my 30-06 than Hornady and Sierra).  And certainly doubt I'd down load a partition, or a bonded bullet, due to design.

2000 fps and less  ( muzzle velocity) in 30-06, probably best served by a lead 190 grain gas check. But with the mentioned 200 yard hunting range ( 400 max accuracy), I doubt I'd want to download anything for stabilities sake and questionable expansion. 

 

[bgavin]

Yep, totally agree.
The OP has to decide if he can handle the recoil, or has to give up hunting.

Elk is a Class 3 game, and requires a heavy for caliber bullet weight.
This is going to pack a wallop in 270, 30-06, 7mm, etc.
Especially so for long range out to 300 yards.

Pushing a sufficient bullet at sufficient speed to deliver the required down-range energy is going to incur recoil.


 

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

T T Trapper:

I had a couple of rifles that beat me when I shot them, but I bought a couple of Mercury Recoil Reducers from Brownells that helped a lot.

They have/had ones that fit the buttstock and the forearm and were easy to install.

It enabled me to hunt my .338WM and take several moose.

Good luck.

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

6 minutes ago, bgavin said:

Yep, totally agree.
The OP has to decide if he can handle the recoil, or has to give up hunting.

Elk is a Class 3 game, and requires a heavy for caliber bullet weight.
This is going to pack a wallop in 270, 30-06, 7mm, etc.
Especially so for long range out to 300 yards.

Pushing a sufficient bullet at sufficient speed to deliver the required down-range energy is going to incur recoil.


 

+1

Not sure what it is but heavy for caliber 2700-2800 fps muzzle velocity seems to be the magic number. Outside 300 yards, it seems the magnums come into play.

[Ranger Dan]

Muzzle brake !!!

[bgavin]

My first black eye came from Dad's '06 at the gravel pit.
I had my cheek on the comb when it fired... solid black by the time we got back to the truck.

I still remember that, but wanted a nice '06 for non-hunting purposes.
Mine weighs 9.75 pounds with scope, which helps tone down the recoil.
Too heavy for a week's carry in the field.

I did a lot of research into downloading with 5744 and H4895, for plinkers.
I keep four boxes of 180gr Core-Lokt for "just in case", but have no desire to hunt game.
Walmart had them on sale for $18 per box, so I picked them up.

[Innocent Bystander]

I would suggest a 270 Moderate recoil, ammo is available almost anywhere and lots of rifles to choose from. As mentioned above, the OP is going to have to determine how much recoil he can stand. I will say, I've had two rotator cuff surgeries on both shoulders (4 total), not the same as a replacement though,  and can shoot a 30-06 quite easily. 

[Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485]

I'm going to second the muzzle brake. Had an AR in .308 that had a good brake, looked like a miniature one from a tank, That gun had less felt recoil than my .223. 

[PowderRiverCowboy]

.308 without a good buffer you will know , my 458Socom will remove heads . Not a 6.5 creedmore fan but it will reach , I only have 1 but it’s sighted in for 1300 plus yards . 
  

[Still hand Bill]

For raw recoil numbers it’s all physics.  Recoil is momentum, mass x velocity.  So heavier or faster bullets have more recoil.  Since the rifle momentum has to be equal the momentum of the round a heavy rifle moves less.  
 

Energy  of the bullet is 1/2 mass x V^2, so energy goes up faster with velocity than mass.  What this means in a practical sense is small fast bullets have more energy for the same recoil, hence 243, 6.5’s, and 7mm vs 308, 30-06.   Problem is the bc, if it’s low then you loose energy quickly, thus must start fast to have any power at long ranges.  Commonly accepted is 2000 ftlbs and a minimum of 1500 for elk.  With that know, I would start plugging numbers into the Hornady external ballistics calculator to see what cartridges will meet the needed energy.  I expect most common low recoil rounds won’t get it done at 400 yards.   A quick search for 6.5 cm data says it’s a 200 yard cartridge for elk.  
 

once you have a couple contenders based on energy, plug that into a recoil calculator to see which has the least recoil.  Then you can always adjust by adding weigh to the rifle or a muzzle brake.  Muzzle brakes are very effective, but do add strain on scopes and are louder to the shooter.  If you want to spend the $200, get a silencer as it reduces noise and recoil.  
 

I have several rifles for elk at sub 200 yards, but only two that really can reach out to 300+.  7 rem mag and 35 whelen.  Of those two I prefer shooting the 35 Whelen. 
 

 

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

.50-140 650 is a goodstart.