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2022 EOT TG Minutes


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I (myself), we (our club/posse) promote SASS and try to recruit new members all the time.  When Misty first booked booth space at the Great American Outdoor Show in Harrisburg, PA I helped to contact clubs in Pennsylvania and the surrounding states to help man the booth, and continue to do so.  I reached out to club contacts and, in turn, they reached out to their membership. 
I suppose I recruit, primarily, to gain membership for our club/posse since it's mostly done locally.  I try to grow our club.  Most do join SASS.  We can always use "new blood".  Isn't that how our Rotary, Lion's Club, Scouting, and most any other club gets new members - friends, family, word of mouth, activities?  If the membership doesn't assist in recruitment at some level, now matter the organization, the organization will fade away.

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1 minute ago, Black Hills Barb said:

Rotary, Lion's Club, Scouting, and most any other club gets new members - friends, family, word of mouth, activities?  If the membership doesn't assist in recruitment at some level, now matter the organization, the organization will fade away.

I'm not against helping... I've been know to help my clubs over the years... But aren't these organizations you mention not-for-profit organizations?

 

Phantom

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Some might say that it is a "heavy burden" to recruit for SASS.  I don't see that it is a burden at all.  Of the many (too many) hobbies that I have, I've always found it more enjoyable to have others participate.  I can shoot alone but it's not as much fun.  I can play golf alone but it's not as much fun.  I can run an RC car but unless there are others it won't be a "race".    Does it benefit the golf course and golf companies , sure.  Does it benefit the local hobby shop, sure.  Does it benefit the ammo company and firearms companies sure.

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11 minutes ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:

Also:

I was tired yesterday, and I’m tired again today. I am retired. 

No that would multi-tired :)

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9 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I'm not against helping... I've been know to help my clubs over the years... But aren't these organizations you mention not-for-profit organizations?

 

Phantom

The bottom line is, that if you don't have the time or the inclination to help out, don't.  SASS doesn't require us to do so.  Whether we do or don't we all have the same benefits of membership in the end.  
I have belonged to both, but my involvement, or their need for membership, has never varied due to tax status. I've recruited for my workplace without encouragement or compensation.
FYI -
Differences-Between-Nonprofit-and-For-Profit-Organizations-SL-IG

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Just now, Black Hills Barb said:

I've recruited for my workplace without encouragement or compensation.

 

My workplace pays a cash bonus for referrals.

 

I know that for a long time, SASS did the same. I am unsure of the current status of that program however.

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7 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

 

My workplace pays a cash bonus for referrals.

 

I know that for a long time, SASS did the same. I am unsure of the current status of that program however.

You are correct about SASS.  I never collected on it though.  As for the workplace, they do now.  However, they didn't used to when I had jobs that I wanted my friends to come to work at.  :D

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9 hours ago, Black Hills Barb said:

doesn't require us to do so. 

But they encourage it heavily. Had a recent survey from them that asked how's to increase (my word not theirs), volunteers.

 

It's a culture... If you ever see me, ask me about an old EOT comment;)

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10 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

 

My workplace pays a cash bonus for referrals.

 

I know that for a long time, SASS did the same. I am unsure of the current status of that program however.

I have benefitted several times from the "refer a friend" program. I've had two in the past year. I do it more to encourage new people to join to get a "bonus" three months on their membership. Any incentives provided by SASS can and do help.

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I’m envious! I wish my biggest worry was how SASS markets itself and whether me chatting up a prospective new member is just me being sociable or SASS exploiting me!

 

Rather than the mundane worries of the AC maybe failing because it’s not blowing as cool as I think it should, or how much is that European vacation for the wife and daughter going to cost me, or is the contractor ripping me off on finishing my basement, I could focus on important things like how much does Misty owe me for telling that new shooter how fun CAS is and offering to let him shoot my guns.

 

For those of you for whom questions about SASS business operations loom large, I salute your personal life successes that allow you to focus so much energy on such a trivial matter.

 

Meanwhile I look forward to my next SASS match which allows me to briefly escape the meaningful challenges in my life and for a while just play.

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8 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I’m envious! I wish my biggest worry was how SASS markets itself and whether me chatting up a prospective new member is just me being sociable or SASS exploiting me!

 

Rather than the mundane worries of the AC maybe failing because it’s not blowing as cool as I think it should, or how much is that European vacation for the wife and daughter going to cost me, or is the contractor ripping me off on finishing my basement, I could focus on important things like how much does Misty owe me for telling that new shooter how fun CAS is and offering to let him shoot my guns.

 

For those of you for whom questions about SASS business operations loom large, I salute your personal life successes that allow you to focus so much energy on such a trivial matter.

 

Meanwhile I look forward to my next SASS match which allows me to briefly escape the meaningful challenges in my life and for a while just play.

Well dang... This is the Stoopid SASS forum... Where we focus on SASS issues.

 

But hey, if you like everything that SASS is doing, by all means feel free to belittle those that don't.

 

Phantom

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On 3/23/2022 at 12:21 PM, Houston CAS said:

 

So what are the next steps in this process? 

 

When I asked this question, I was referring to what happens to SASS if @Misty Moonshine steps down, etc? Seems like now is the perfect time to transition to a non-profit. I assume that's what happens next, so I wanted to know if that indeed is the case.

 

If the non-profit isn't happening, at a minimum there needs to be a succession plan.

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14 minutes ago, Houston CAS said:

 

When I asked this question, I was referring to what happens to SASS if @Misty Moonshine steps down, etc? Seems like now is the perfect time to transition to a non-profit. I assume that's what happens next, so I wanted to know if that indeed is the case.

 

If the non-profit isn't happening, at a minimum there needs to be a succession plan.

A business owner doesn’t “step down”. And although you may wish to know a a succession plan, there doesn’t “need” to be one. As to the non profit thing, I’d think if that were still in the works, we’d likely know about it. 

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3 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Well dang... This is the Stoopid SASS forum... Where we focus on SASS issues.

 

But hey, if you like everything that SASS is doing, by all means feel free to belittle those that don't.

 

Phantom

Let's play nice!  It doesn't seem like a major issue to me.  I enjoy chatting about CAS with potential shooters and I like watching them ooh and ahh when they try cowboy guns. It doesn't matter to me if my doing that somehow generates revenue for SASS.

3 hours ago, Houston CAS said:

 

When I asked this question, I was referring to what happens to SASS if @Misty Moonshine steps down, etc? Seems like now is the perfect time to transition to a non-profit. I assume that's what happens next, so I wanted to know if that indeed is the case.

 

If the non-profit isn't happening, at a minimum there needs to be a succession plan.

It's a for profit business just like any other.  What happens when the owner of the local restaurant steps down? If it's profitable he sells it, if not it closes.  I suspect Misty is a bit too smart to just 'step down' from something that she owns exclusively. 

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17 minutes ago, Houston CAS said:

 

When I asked this question, I was referring to what happens to SASS if @Misty Moonshine steps down, etc? Seems like now is the perfect time to transition to a non-profit. I assume that's what happens next, so I wanted to know if that indeed is the case.

 

If the non-profit isn't happening, at a minimum there needs to be a succession plan.

Since MM obviously had to buy out the Wild Bunch there’s no stepping down!

Shes chosen to put all her eggs in this one basket! Isn’t this obvious?

Shes attempting to make a living from keeping SASS going, along with her employees!

There’s nothing non profit about this! Do you think there is something WRONG with making a profit? It’s what this country is all about !

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First off, I am sure that Cowboy Action Shooting will continue for a long time. It is a great and fun pass time that has brought me and a good many others a great deal of joy. You saw the statement that SASS is owned by one person now. That's OK with me because regardless of who owns the name of the GAME, the GAME belongs to ME... and you. Nobody can take it back... not ever!  I see a couple of folks here that just don't seem to grasp that fact.  Contrary to what some might think, there are actually a few of us that have been marginally successful in life and have still managed to be able to provided time, effort, money and support to developing and promoting the GAME. SASS's  success was an offshoot of ALL THAT WORK. Any down turn didn't come from the membership, it came from within. From the beginning there were some talented folks directing the flow of things, but it was and has always been the Volunteers that made things happen. Anyone that doesn't believe that is just not seeing the truth.  I've seen few rewards for those volunteers. But the fact is they didn't do it for rewards. They did it for the personal satisfaction of supporting and improving the GAME that they came to love. If it put money into the SASS, the business, that was OK with them as long as SASS supported the GAME.  I don't see anything changing as long as the new owner continues to provide guidance and remembers that the GAME belongs to those who play it.  It was volunteers that made it all work, and it will be volunteers that will continue to make it work.  

 

Snakebite

 

 

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CAS started out as a fun game.  "It's the most fun you can have with your pants on!!"  CAS is "a social event interrupted by gunfire!!!"  

"It's shooting Cowboy guns like our heroes did on Sat. morning TV and at the movies."  "We get to dress up like John Wayne, Roy Rogers, Gene Autry, Lone Ranger, Hopalong Cassidy, etc. and shoot real bullets."

And then the word "CHAMPIONSHIP" came into the "GAME"

And everyone wants to be a champion in something.

RULES, MORE RULES, MORE RULES, "CONVENTIONS", AND MORE RULES AND MORE PROBLEMS.

And here is where we are today.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO GET SHOOTERS FROM USPSA, ICORE, 3 GUN, ETC., BECAUSE WHEN THEY LOOK AT OUR RULES THEY SAY, SORRY, NOT FOR ME.

 

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I had a young fellow from my gun club tell me he bought all three of his three gun firearms for less than he could buy a slicked up 1873.  The cost of entry is a serious barrier to growth.  

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12 minutes ago, Desert Pete SASS #42168 said:

I had a young fellow from my gun club tell me he bought all three of his three gun firearms for less than he could buy a slicked up 1873.  The cost of entry is a serious barrier to growth.  

He must've bought his 73 from Widder.:P

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9 hours ago, Desert Pete SASS #42168 said:

I had a young fellow from my gun club tell me he bought all three of his three gun firearms for less than he could buy a slicked up 1873.  The cost of entry is a serious barrier to growth.  

 

You can get a pair of Italian revolvers, a Rossi '92 and a Stoger SxS for the cost of a slicked up '73.

 

Then, if you stick with the game, you'll want to get them all slicked up and/or upgrade.  Just as the young fellow from your gun club will if he sticks with 3-gun.

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On 3/21/2022 at 5:35 PM, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

I am interested about the discussion regarding .32 caliber and blackpowder.  

Hell Fire Hanna at Ft Parker

.32 Mag, Pinnacle to base of 100 gr bullet, about .8 CC.  I think it's plenty of smoke.

 

image.thumb.jpeg.af01222d9e6f451c93780304435ca53b.jpeg

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26 minutes ago, Yusta B. said:

Hell Fire Hanna at Ft Parker

.32 Mag, Pinnacle to base of 100 gr bullet, about .8 CC.  I think it's plenty of smoke.

 

image.thumb.jpeg.af01222d9e6f451c93780304435ca53b.jpeg

 

That is pretty much my wife's load, except she uses a 115gr 32-20 bullet.  Puts out a lot more smoke then 1cc of real BP in a .38.

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I am confident that APP in a .32 H&R mag case to the base of the bullet would pass the SASS smoke test in a blind test.  I wondered what the discussion was about.  My hope is that the matter dies and ladies can continue shooting their .32s in smokey categories.

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On 3/24/2022 at 1:25 PM, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:

A business owner doesn’t “step down”. And although you may wish to know a a succession plan, there doesn’t “need” to be one. As to the non profit thing, I’d think if that were still in the works, we’d likely know about it. 

The succession plan would be her will or trust.

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Just now, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:

Assuming she has one, but she wouldn’t “need” to, and if she does, frankly it’s not our business or concern. 

Well that was my point as well.  Her business.

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I wanted to add for those of you that are "new".  There was a non-profit Western Action Shooting Association (WASA) back around 1996-98.  It didn't last pretty much because it was non-profit.  My ONLY objection to all of this was that around 8 years ago (not 3-4 as I originally thought) , we were TOLD it was going to become non-profit.  An announcement later that it was not to be might have been appropriate.  I just prefer transparency. 

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I've read all the comments about allowing Gunfighters to shoot in the Open age-based categories and have a question.  I started Cowboy Action Shooting about 5 years ago but have never shot gunfighter and have no plans to start.  I'm at least competitive in my 49'r category locally, but definitely am not one of the top shooters at larger matches. There is one aspect that I've not seen discussed.  Perhaps it's not an issue, but it seems like it could be important. 

Currently, all Open age-based categories allow only ONE PISTOL TO BE SHOT AT A TIME (even duelists whose example is often used to justify the change).  Would not Gunfighters, shooting TWO PISTOLS AT A TIME, have a slight advantage over the other shooters shooting one pistol at a time?  It takes a fair amount of time to draw a single pistol, find the target, shoot, then holster it, then draw a second pistol, find the target, begin shooting again, and then holster the second pistol. 

SASS has gone to great lengths to create even playing fields by having several age-based categories, all of which shoot one pistol at a time.  I'm concerned that allowing Gunfighters to compete across several Open age-based categories may create a less even playing field for the majority of shooters, while benefitting the few.  It seems to me that this is an important distinction and should be considered before allowing Gunfighters to directly compete in open age-based categories against styles that use only one pistol.  

I hope SASS considers this aspect before allowing gunfighters to compete against the rest of us shooting one pistol at a time.  Some may, and probably will, say we single pistol shooters could just shoot gunfighter style.  However, there are a lot of reasons why many shooting a single pistol may not, and often probably should not, shoot using both hands at the same time.  SASS should give this issue a lot of thought before making a change.  

I'd need to be convinced this would be a good change for SASS and the bulk of its members.  Right now, I'm not.  

AA

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28 minutes ago, AABB said:

I've read all the comments about allowing Gunfighters to shoot in the Open age-based categories and have a question.  I started Cowboy Action Shooting about 5 years ago but have never shot gunfighter and have no plans to start.  I'm at least competitive in my 49'r category locally, but definitely am not one of the top shooters at larger matches. There is one aspect that I've not seen discussed.  Perhaps it's not an issue, but it seems like it could be important. 

Currently, all Open age-based categories allow only ONE PISTOL TO BE SHOT AT A TIME (even duelists whose example is often used to justify the change).  Would not Gunfighters, shooting TWO PISTOLS AT A TIME, have a slight advantage over the other shooters shooting one pistol at a time?  It takes a fair amount of time to draw a single pistol, find the target, shoot, then holster it, then draw a second pistol, find the target, begin shooting again, and then holster the second pistol. 

SASS has gone to great lengths to create even playing fields by having several age-based categories, all of which shoot one pistol at a time.  I'm concerned that allowing Gunfighters to compete across several Open age-based categories may create a less even playing field for the majority of shooters, while benefitting the few.  It seems to me that this is an important distinction and should be considered before allowing Gunfighters to directly compete in open age-based categories against styles that use only one pistol.  

I hope SASS considers this aspect before allowing gunfighters to compete against the rest of us shooting one pistol at a time.  Some may, and probably will, say we single pistol shooters could just shoot gunfighter style.  However, there are a lot of reasons why many shooting a single pistol may not, and often probably should not, shoot using both hands at the same time.  SASS should give this issue a lot of thought before making a change.  

I'd need to be convinced this would be a good change for SASS and the bulk of its members.  Right now, I'm not.  

AA

One point to make would be there hasn't YET been a gunfighter win the world overall. Close, but not yet. For the AVERAGE gunfighter style shooter transitions are hurt. That makes up some difference. Keep in mind, I'm a duelist not a gunfighter.

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35 minutes ago, AABB said:

<snip>Would not Gunfighters, shooting TWO PISTOLS AT A TIME, have a slight advantage over the other shooters shooting one pistol at a time? <snip>

 

Extensive testing on this question has been done, and there's plenty of data to analyze.  The answer is NO. There are a number of reasons for it, including not having 1 hand free for the next transition.  But no, GF is not an advantage.  Among a very few, at best there is parity.

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