Gunfighter tempted by the (un)holy black

[Orient Express]

Hi pards,

 

I've been shooting smokeless for years but after my away match last weekend I finally had a play with another shooters blackpowder. Now I'm very interested. I shoot .38 spl in my Ruger NMV and a Ubert 1873. I use the same load of AS30N with 125/130gn projectiles for both. I intend to only use blackpowder for my pistols first as it will be easier to clean. Can anyone point me the direction on where to start reloading for it please? I've searched here but get a lot of unrelated posts. Can I use the same projectile with blackpowder?

 

Thanks pards.

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

What type of powder are you looking to use? Are you thinking real black powder, or one of the substitutes?

[Doc Fill 'Em 67797]

Most will say to use SPG lube for your bullets if you use real BP. I think if you use APP you might be able to use your existing bullets. 

 

If you plan to shoot in the Frontier Cartridge category I believe you have to use BP or substitute in all your guns. If you just want to try BP in another category in your pistols that should be OK. 

 

Here is an article that helped get me started shooting "on the Dark Side."

https://www.curtrich.com/bpsubsdummies.html

 

Blackpowder is a lot of fun, good luck!

 

[Orient Express]

From my limited readings, FFFG is the correct powder for my calibre. WANO brand can be bought locally. I only want to try it out so will stick to them in my revolvers for the time being.

 

Isn't frontier category >40cal? I only shoot 38spl so would need to re-gun which I'm not inclined to do at the moment. @Doc Fill 'Em 67797 thanks for the link.

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

14 minutes ago, TheOtherLeft said:

Isn't frontier category >40cal? I only shoot 38spl so would need to re-gun 

 

your 38's would fit right in FCGF. However, to shoot in a Frontier Cartridge category, you would need to be shooting Black Powder in all your firearms.

 

 

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

Here is also a playlist with all kinds of tips related to Black Powder Cartridge Shooting and SASS

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfV7foytL0Zf7otBfcTPOdR8k5hRcS8Mv

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

Many folks just starting out or playing with BP like to start with one of the substitutes, with APP being one of the more common ones used by cowboy shooters.

 

There was recently a listing in the SASS Merchant corner where a vendor had some available.

 

 

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Before I had SPG-lubed bullets I tried shooting bullets with regular lube and then placing some vegetable shortening in end of the revolver cylinders to lube like a cap and ball revolver.  This worked well and I found I did not need to place shortening in every cylinder.  Frontier Cartridge does not have a caliber minimum.  My wife's .32s in H&R mag work well for LFC.  Welcome to the Darkside!  Just test your loads and equipment before a match to see how many stages they will run without binding.

[Sedalia Dave]

With Wano you will have a more harmonious outcome in your pistols if switch to bullets lubed with a BP compatible lube. As a temporary solution you could switch to using .357 brass and use a lubricated felt wad between the bullet and the powder. If you go this route. Be sure use an over powder card between to wad and powder to prevent the lube in the wad from contaminating the powder. When the bullet is seated and crimped the load should be compressed just enough to eliminate and airspace. If you compress the load you will force the lube out of the wad and it will contaminate the powder. Store the bullets nose down if the temps are above 33 C so that is the lube become thin due to the heat it will not flow down into the powder.

 

Are there any Black Powder Substitutes available in OZ?

 

8 minutes ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

Before I had SPG-lubed bullets I tried shooting bullets with regular lube and then placing some vegetable shortening in end of the revolver cylinders to lube like a cap and ball revolver.  This worked well and I found I did not need to place shortening in every cylinder.  Frontier Cartridge does not have a caliber minimum.  My wife's .32s in H&R mag work well for LFC.  Welcome to the Darkside!  Just test your loads and equipment before a match to see how many stages they will run without binding.

 

Great idea.

[Turkey Flats Jack]

I've shot bp from day one of my adventure in cas. I dont think it's as much fun any other way but that's just me. If you're shooting a bp category all of your ammo has to be bp or bp substitutes. However there's no caliber restriction but you have to have fixed sight pistols. You can use bp in any category at any time without penalty. but if you use even 1 smokeless round as a bp category contestant you can get a dq.  Shooting bp adds a little more work to reloading and cleaning. The cleaning can be minimalized by using a tapered cartridge like 44/40, 38/40, or with reloading procedures . It can be done with straight walled cartridges but requires more work. If you're using real bp you'll want a bp friendly bullet lube. I cant recommend any particular brand as i've always made my own. 50/50 beeswax/tallow. With most substitutes modern lube or powder coated bullets work just fine. I could spend an hour typing reloading info for you but i'm feelin' plumb lazy, so if you like send me a pm with your phone number and i'll give you a call or send you my # if you have any questions. 

 

T.F. Jack

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

24 minutes ago, Turkey Flats Jack said:

 if you use even 1 smokeless round as a bp category contestant you can get a dq. 

 

Shooting Smokeless Rounds in a BP category is penalized as shooting out of category, following the progressive P->SDQ->MDQ penalty,

 

SHB pg 25

Quote

Failure of the shooter’s rounds to produce the same level of smoke as the standard rounds will result in a penalty for not adhering to the category requirements. The first offence will be assessed as a procedural penalty, the second offence in the same match a Stage DQ, and the third offence in the same match a Match DQ.

 

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Remember that the original poster is in Australia.  Scarlet may not export APP and phone calls need to made using an inexpensive telecom method.

[Singin' Sue 71615]

Get ahold of Bald Eagle/Trapper...aka Wayne Chapman.

Owner of Magnum Imports New Zealand, LTD.

Tell him Singin' Sue sent ya!

He can give you all the info on how to get ya going Down Under.

Also, Costable Nelson is full of knowledge!

 

[Blackwater 53393]

Collin The Magnificent and Painted Mohawk both know their way around Black Powder! If they’re anywhere near you, you should look them up!

 

Tell ‘em Blackwater sent ya’!!

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

11 hours ago, Orient Express said:

Hi pards,

 

I've been shooting smokeless for years but after my away match last weekend I finally had a play with another shooters blackpowder. Now I'm very interested. I shoot .38 spl in my Ruger NMV and a Ubert 1873. I use the same load of AS30N with 125/130gn projectiles for both. I intend to only use blackpowder for my pistols first as it will be easier to clean. Can anyone point me the direction on where to start reloading for it please? I've searched here but get a lot of unrelated posts. Can I use the same projectile with blackpowder?

 

Thanks pards.

Get 'ay Orient..I'II just chime in & say if you just want to shoot the pistols with BP then do so in your age based category or duellist or whatever you choose.... I sometimes do that for fun using my cappiies Wano will cease to come into Australia sometime soon so grab some if you can, combat simulations in Lithgow has it. Get 5FA , cheaper & does the job. Talk to Sodie or one of the BP shooters down there to get the info required re loading.

Good luck, see if you can get to Bathurst..Cheers 'Mohawk 

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

Good links to resources here.  I have little to add except to say that the 73 might actually be easier to thoroughly clean than the pistols. The side plates come off giving you full access to flush their guts, whereas the Vaqueros can be somewhat tricky to get inside the action and then reassembled.

[Orient Express]

1 hour ago, Painted Mohawk SASS 77785 said:

Get 'ay Orient..I'II just chime in & say if you just want to shoot the pistols with BP then do so in your age based category or duellist or whatever you choose.... I sometimes do that for fun using my cappiies Wano will cease to come into Australia sometime soon so grab some if you can, combat simulations in Lithgow has it. Get 5FA , cheaper & does the job. Talk to Sodie or one of the BP shooters down there to get the info required re loading.

Good luck, see if you can get to Bathurst..Cheers 'Mohawk 

Thanks Mohawk, it was Sodie's BP revolvers I had a shot with at Nowra. So I blame Sodie and also Weasel for getting me interested.

According to the Wano website 5FA is the same granular size as FFFg.

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

2 minutes ago, Orient Express said:

Thanks Mohawk, it was Sodie's BP revolvers I had a shot with at Nowra. So I blame Sodie and also Weasel for getting me interested.

According to the Wano website 5FA is the same granular size as FFFg.

Often referred to as 'cracker powder' but a lot cheaper. Price wise Lithgow is much better prices than over a shop counter. it is the only BP I use & works well

[Sedalia Dave]

5 hours ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

Good links to resources here.  I have little to add except to say that the 73 might actually be easier to thoroughly clean than the pistols. The side plates come off giving you full access to flush their guts, whereas the Vaqueros can be somewhat tricky to get inside the action and then reassembled.

 

Been shooting 38 specials loaded with BP in Rugers and Open top clones for years. As long as you are using a FULL case of powder in the internals of the actions are not any dirtier than smokeless.  

[Lawdog Dago Dom]

@Orient Express

 

You have had a calling.

 

Resistance is futile.

 

Embrace the Darkness!

[Orient Express]

I've been given conflicting info, but can I use the same projectiles (hard cast with HiTek coating) that I use for smokeless in my .38 spl when loading BP?

[Sedalia Dave]

2 hours ago, Orient Express said:

I've been given conflicting info, but can I use the same projectiles (hard cast with HiTek coating) that I use for smokeless in my .38 spl when loading BP?

 

In your pistols, coated bullets can work. Just coat the nose of the bullet with a little BP compatible lube as you are loading the pistols.

 

When I am shooting C&B pistols, I only put lube over the ball in the first chamber that will be fired. All the rest just have a felt wad between the ball and powder. All my C&B pistols have at least a 6" barrel and over the course of 6 stages I have never had any issues. 

 

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

On 3/22/2022 at 6:58 AM, Orient Express said:

I've been given conflicting info, but can I use the same projectiles (hard cast with HiTek coating) that I use for smokeless in my .38 spl when loading BP?

You can do that for sure with APP. Otherwise do what SD and ERSC said for the lube over first round.

[Orient Express]

Searching the interwebs, everyone seems to have their own concoction of lubes. Is there a generic off-the-shelf one I can buy for my situation of using regular projectiles?

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

8 hours ago, Orient Express said:

Searching the interwebs, everyone seems to have their own concoction of lubes. Is there a generic off-the-shelf one I can buy for my situation of using regular projectiles?

 

Absolutely. Look for SPG.

 

It is fairly easy to make with off the shelf components, with many recipes available. Here is what I do:

 

 

 

 

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

There is no such thing as "unholy" black powder. It's actually the holiest of all powders.  

 

GG ~ 

[Tequila Shooter]

This topic brought up a little peeve I have with shooting BP.   @Orient Express  if you’re a top shooter you’re going to loose speed, so you may never be fastest shooter and that’s my peeve.  If you look at the overall winners there is something in common, they all shoot smokeless.  I think there should be a smokeless and a BP winner, not by category, just fastest smokeless and fastest BP.  Of course I’m still never going to be that guy, and I don’t see me shooting smokeless anytime soon. 

[Orient Express]

I play this game for fun not for places

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

I have used black powder since I was a young boy. My family used it for our

fun shooting. When I started in SASS, I shot wart hog loads of it using Gun Fighter style as an Elder Statesman.

That's the only way I've shot from there through Cattle Baron, El Patron, and, now, El Rey. I have competed in 13 states, 4 provinces and in End of Trail. I have not been thrown out yet!!!

When GF was allowed, there was a lot of Gun Control like sentiment around. I simply disregarded it and shot the way I have forever.

I love shooting CAS gunfighter style with holy black and NRA bullseye, CFD and handgun hunting one

handed with smokeless.

BPCR is with black while birds, and clays call for smokless.

 

I probably would not be safe trying CAS when juggling revolvers from one hand to another. It's much safer pulling both of them at the same time and holstering them simultaneously. 

 

If any Gestapo types will be searching for me to throw me out of a match, go for it.

 

 

 

[Jackaroo, # 29989]

On 3/25/2022 at 12:22 PM, Orient Express said:

Searching the interwebs, everyone seems to have their own concoction of lubes. Is there a generic off-the-shelf one I can buy for my situation of using regular projectiles?

OE mix beeswax and lanolin 50:50 makes a good lube, just warm it up, mix, then store in jar of sorts if you want, and yes, using Hi Tek coated bullets are fine.

Put your powder in, a card wad on top, scrap some lube in the case on top of wad, seat bullet, squashing lube out a little, store bullet down in boxes.

Works fine for me.

[Orient Express]

How far do you have to tear down your guns after the match? In your 1873 rifle is it the case of removing the side plates, toggle links, action springs and lifter or do I have to disassemble the bolt extension, remove firing pin and clean those as well? Anything else need cleaning?

 

What about the Ruger nmv? Do I have to tear it down to clean the firing pin and internals etc? In several years of shooting smokeless I've never actually disassembled it beyond removing the cylinder for cleaning and removing the grips to change the spring.

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

10 minutes ago, Orient Express said:

How far do you have to tear down your guns after the match?

 

 

 

 

[Orient Express]

@Branchwater Jack SASS #88854Thanks for the videos. Seems to be a much more simple process then I thought.

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

14 minutes ago, Orient Express said:

@Branchwater Jack SASS #88854Thanks for the videos. Seems to be a much more simple process then I thought.

 

You can make it a lot harder than that, if you want to. However, that's what I've been doing for the past 12 years or so.

[Sedalia Dave]

Orient Express. Remove the cylinder from your NMV and take a small amount of the lube you are using for your bullets and put a very light coat on the inside of the frame. Use this same lube on the base pin. Makes cleanup a little easier.

 

One thing you will notice after cleaning your pistols is that the black stain on the front of your cylinders will no longer be there.  

 

Shooting 1 match with BP will also remove the carbon ring that forms in the chamber when you shoot 38 specials in a 357 chamber.