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Long Range (Or Precision) Rifle Category Question


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Shiloh Sharps rifles are excellent. A bit pricey, and a long wait for a new one. But again, excellent. 
 

I also gave a Uberti Win 1885 in 38-55. Also a very accurate rifle. You won’t go wrong there either. 
 

long range comes down to 4 things. Not necessarily in this order, but all equally important 

quality rifle 

Quality ammo

quality sights

a shooter that understands ballistics, and how his sights work. (And can sqeeeeeze a trigger!) 
 

Don’t scrimp on sights!  MVA or Kelley. Expect to pay 6-700 for front & rear sight pkg. 

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I am no expert, but I really like my Browning BPCR 1885 High Wall in 45-70.  I also just picked up an 1886 and waiting on my MVA Vernier sight to ship.

 

Whatever you decide on, spend the extra for good sights!  Hoss is spot on with the recommendation of MVA or Kelley.  MVA seems to be the standard all others are compared to.

 

Totes

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One word - when I got my first "Sharps" now long gone,I think it was an EMF / Pedersoli, I loaded up 15 rounds of each of 3 different bullet weights and 2 or 3 powder charges and went to the range.  The Club had only 100 yards, but there was a good bench and target stand.  I set up everything and methodically shot 6 different targets.  Can't recall which was best, but after the rifle was gone I had a couple of boxes of a heavy Postell Bullet - I think 525 and a box of the same loaded.  What is unforgettable is the color of my shoulder after 90 rounds with a curved steel butt plate.  Older and wiser, I'll use a sissy pad this time around.

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For most ranges a .38-55 works very well.  You will need to cast and reload to get the best round.  I have a C Sharps in .45-70 and a Browning .38-55 High Wall.  Out to 500 yards I like the .38-55 as its 336 gr bullet recoil will not be near as bad as a .45-70.  The .38-55 will do most hunting jobs the .45-70 is used for, the big animals need the bullet placed better than the .45-70.   For sights use one of this group:  https://montanavintagearms.com     :     https://stores.leeshavergunsmithing.com      :    https://www.facebook.com/baldwinsights/      :      http://www.kelleysights.com/SouleSights.php    These sights are the major sights used for BPCR competition ending up in the winners cycle.

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I've never even fired a singe round through rifles of this class, but my all time favorite of the period is the 1885 High Wall.  I'd go with Uberti manufacture and spend the bucks on the sights.

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SASS's long range rifle shooting would not be one I would throw into a Precision Rifle Shooting bucket.   We don't normally shoot long range at the kind of distances and small target sizes that I have seen used for PRS.

 

We do have several recognized types of types of side matches, so picking your rifle ought to come after you get a little familiarity with what events you will shoot.  That can vary a lot depending upon what your location is, too, and which big Cowboy matches you attend.   Since many long range side matches are held in conjunction with at least annuals, sometimes at regionals, and almost always at nationals and world events.   

 

Lever guns, single-shot guns, smokeless, black powder and subs.  Iron sights or period type optical sights.  Lots of choices, so few matches for most types of the variations.  To find more matches with black powder rifles, be willing to look at BPCR competitions, too.

 

You need to GO to some of the long range side match events at the SASS shoots you can get to, and see what event and guns and ammo are being used.   Ask, ask, ask.  You most likely will pay a LOT for a very small number of rounds a year that you get to shoot.  Unless you have a local range at which you can practice on "man size" targets at distance to build up your ability to read distance and windage and elevation.  As John said.

 

good luck, GJ

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49 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

What's your background in loading match grade BP ammo?

OLG 

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Go 45-70 first choice is Shilo, second is C. Sharps, and Pedersoli a distant 3rd. For sights go with MVA, Hoke, Kelly, Baldwin, or Shaver

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1 minute ago, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said:

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Not tuned to your rifle, extremely limited availability, and you will need to sell a kidney to buy what little is sold. 

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1 minute ago, Buckshot Sheridan said:

Not tuned to your rifle, extremely limited availability, and you will need to sell a kidney to buy what little is sold. 

Pretty much sums it up. I was going to put the kidney thing first though.

My Pedersoli shoots better than me. I bought the sights from them also and am very happy.

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The folks who made their living or protected themselves with these kinds of rifle back in the day reloaded with the simplest kinds of tools often under harsh conditions.  To get good, functional ammunition for most purposes is not an issue.  Match target, in virtually any caliber is another kettle of fish entirely.  Most, self included, don't shoot well enough to actually need the latter.

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42 minutes ago, Buckshot Sheridan said:

Not tuned to your rifle, extremely limited availability, and you will need to sell a kidney to buy what little is sold. 

image.thumb.png.cb14056fac282bc2718ecf3a8572291c.png

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1 hour ago, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said:

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Factory BPCR for OUR SASS distances the variance is little if any that would make a difference in your scoring. With the 1885 Highwall you can shoot  Smokeless Precision and IF your local club allows it BPCR*. By the rule book Buffalo is only BPCR unless the Match director says otherwise. You also need to decide if you want to shoot scope or Iron sights. As some others have stated you need to hang out at some long range matches and get a little better understanding of what might most interest you. I own the C Sharps in 38-55 and love almost everything about it EXCEPT I went for looks and ordered it with crescent buttstock. Hurts like heck, I recommend the shotgun  buttstock. Also if you decide this is your thing then you will also want to join a local BPCR club (non-SASS). I also have the Shiloh and will state that it's my fav! Sometimes folks cancel orders and you will find one in stock at Shiloh. Also if you want to spend a few hundred over list then contact Bill Goodman at goodmanguns.com, he has them on the shelf!

If you are down south way in May come shoot long range with us at the Georgia State match. We keep getting more and more Long Range Shooters every year!

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Father Kit, having MANY Single Shots in several safes, if I knew back when what I have now, I would have stopped and spent the money only for a CPA 44 1/2 all the calibers and configurations, plus Unertl scopes that I have.  With my CPA I can shoot any distance out to 1000 plus or sport (Bench, silloutte or Schuetzen)

by just changing the barrel caliber and extractor 

Mine:

* Silloutte and Schuetzen forearms & stocks, plus palm rest

* Barrels … 32-40, 25-21, 38-55, 45-60 and 45-70

* One Baldwin vernier LR with interchange bases … each with globe bubble foresight 

Scopes … With different magnifications, either Unertl’s or Feckers

""……………. Now, the suggestion for your CPA…. Silloutte woods, Baldwin LR vernier with 2 bases & 1 staff and Douglas barrels in 38-55 and 45-70

Cost … See website for prices with the configuration you want

https://www.cparifles.com/   

 

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First off what time period are you interested. If it is in the 1870's then a sharps Rifle or a Springfield. 

The High Walls are a excellent Rifle. They showed up after the Buffalo were Gone.

I have a Shiloh Sharps Number one in 45-70. If i was going to purchase a new rifle it would be in 40-65.

If you shoot the 45-70 with a full load of Black Powder, it is a thumper. 

When i was younger it didn't bother me. Know that i am getting older, not so much fun.

The 40-65 will do the same thing the 45-70 will do, for target shooting. Your Shoulder will thank you. 

You can also form 40-65, from 45-70 if you had too.

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Reality is a real thing.

Only one person has given you a place to start

 Everyone is pushing $2,500 to $3,500 rifles that take years to get. Or used.

SASS is not long range. Its speed rifle out to 350 yards +/-. Most ranges are less than 200 yards.

SASS is most hits in the least time. That means black powder is not the path. You have to use a blow tube or wet patch after every round.

You don't need 500 grain bullets or 45-70.

A good shooter in our club shot an H&R handi rifle in 38-55 for years, under $1,000.

You can buy good smokeless ammo for SASS LR.

You can use a Lyman long range peep site for way less money than an MVA soule sight.

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H&R is a good Rifle. A lot of people shoot them. They look like a Shotgun. 

If i was going to purchase a new shooter it would be a Sharps, Remington, Springfield.

The 38-55 is excellent cartridge. If you ever want to Shoot a Buffalo Shoot, the 38-55 won't knock down the Steel Buffalo.

The 40-65 will with a 400 grain Bullet. 

I have shot 20 Rounds without a Blow tube or cleaning the Barrel.

Ask around at local clubs. If you can Shoot Different Cartridges. Different Rifles.

Pedersoli makes excellent Rifles.

Stevens 44 1/2 is a great Rifle if you can find one.

Any single shot Rifle you are going to have to Reload. If you, don't it will cost a Fortune.

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You really need to decide what you are wanting to shoot before you decide on a rifle.  As already stated here and other threads Cowboy SASS long range side matches vary widely based on the available facilities and the people running the matches.  Are they shot out to 100, 200 or 300 yards?  Or can they go out to 600, 800 or 1,000 yards?  Are there separate categories for black powder and smokeless?  Are you interested only in hitting or is speed also one criteria as some actions take longer to go through the sequence of shooting.  Lots of questions need answered before anyone can really make recommendations for what you should consider and why.

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I would recommend listening to John Boy - I believe he has the most experience with Period Long Range shooting here on the wire.

 

I've shot Long Range for SASS at several different venues.  The shortest was EOT at Founders Ranch (just 100 yards) not timed and based on your group size.  There had a maximum of 5 minutes for your ten rounds.  At El Dorado and Stampede in Nevada the ranges varied by the firearm used but the max was 300 yds.  At Winter Range (and now EOT) The longest distance is approx 550 yards. 

 

After Quigley, I ordered a Sharps from Shiloh in 45-70 (it took five years to get it) 32 inch barrel and heavy - It just made weight for NRA Black Powder at under 15 pounds - See rules here https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2016/11/22/how-to-nra-black-powder-target-rifle-competition/

Lovely rifle, accurate but slow.   After over 20 years I finally sold it. 

I also purchased a Browning BPCR in 40-65 - Excellent rifle - fast - good looking, not as nice as the Sharps but faster and just as accurate.  I sold it to purchase a 45-70 of the same rifle because I wanted to narrow my reloading choices.  The 45-70 doesn't disappoint and the rifle weighs enough so that the recoil is very manageable.    That's the rifle I would recommend.  

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I am really happy with my 45/70 Pedersoli Boss Sharps with Lee Shaver sights.

I shoot mine out to 600m and use smokeless powder (I know, BURN HIM HE's A WITCH!).

I don't have access to a longer range at the moment so this does me fine and I shoot once a month with a bunch of other guys who have a mix of the above suggestions and a mix of BP and the heathen mix.

 

For me:

1. Think long and hard about what you are really going to do with this gun.

2. Buy the best rifle and sight set up you can afford that matches the above.

3. If BP loading is a bit much for you at the moment start loading your own smokeless loads (OLG has some great advice about these-UNIQUE!).

4. Start with a calibre with lots of load tables and components available (brass, projectiles, etc).

5. You are in the land of plenty when it comes to options and premade parts and components take advantage of that and don't rush to do it all at once.

 

My two cents.

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I shoot two C.Sharps 1885 Highwalls with 32 inch heavy barrels.  For long range (1000 yards+) one is a 45-90. For silhouette the other is a 40-65.  The 40-65 will do a decent job of 1000 yards with predictable winds.

 

The dominant caliber for both LR and silhouette is 45-70.  The most popular style is the 1874 Sharps, then a few highwalls and the occasional Ballard or trap door.

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At this past EOT over on the 550 yard Bison and the Quigley the vast majority were ‘74 Sharps, a few high walls, one rolling block, 3 or 4 trapdoors and one H&R. There was only 1 hit by a trapdoor, none from the H&R, the roller only shot the Quigley resulting in one hit. Calibers ranged from 38-55 to 50 x 2 1/2, a few 45-90 and the bulk were 45-70. At least 2 shot paper patch. I’d like to find out how many did shoot or would be interested in doing paper patch. 

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Hi Kit,

John Boy was my long range mentor.  CPA and pedersoli are good for sass long range.  Quality sights are important.  Expect to spend a good chunk on MVA or equivalent sights. It’s definitely worth it.  Sharps vs high/low walls- use what you like. I use a Shiloh Sharps. Caliber- I prefer the 45/70. Easy to load in BP or smokeless and components are easier to find.  The heavy 500+ grain heads won’t move around in the wind at longer distances like some of the lighter stuff. Loading- the commercial stuff will have you eating cat food.  Commercial heads with either BP or smokeless that you will load will get you wins in sass. If you also shoot BPCR then you will have to cast your own heads to have a shot at the top spots. remember that you will have to experiment with different loads and heads to find what your rifle prefers. 
 

best of luck,

gringo
 

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I remember the first day that El Diablo sat down at the table to shoot a Buffalo steel at 300 yds with my Pedersoli 45-90 with black powder … including coaching.

It’s nice to say that the student progressed to shoot better than the mentor

El Diablo progressed quickly to be the New Jersey Mid Range Champion

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On 3/16/2022 at 7:48 PM, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

I would recommend listening to John Boy - I believe he has the most experience with Period Long Range shooting here on the wire.

 

I've shot Long Range for SASS at several different venues.  The shortest was EOT at Founders Ranch (just 100 yards) not timed and based on your group size.  There had a maximum of 5 minutes for your ten rounds.  At El Dorado and Stampede in Nevada the ranges varied by the firearm used but the max was 300 yds.  At Winter Range (and now EOT) The longest distance is approx 550 yards. 

 

After Quigley, I ordered a Sharps from Shiloh in 45-70 (it took five years to get it) 32 inch barrel and heavy - It just made weight for NRA Black Powder at under 15 pounds - See rules here https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2016/11/22/how-to-nra-black-powder-target-rifle-competition/

Lovely rifle, accurate but slow.   After over 20 years I finally sold it. 

I also purchased a Browning BPCR in 40-65 - Excellent rifle - fast - good looking, not as nice as the Sharps but faster and just as accurate.  I sold it to purchase a 45-70 of the same rifle because I wanted to narrow my reloading choices.  The 45-70 doesn't disappoint and the rifle weighs enough so that the recoil is very manageable.    That's the rifle I would recommend.  

I’m goin a have to add to the comment about John Boy! He has helped me so much with my BP loads for my 40-65 and 45-70 over the conversations we have had on the phone, he does have a wealth of knowledge and shares it freely and with no “I know it all “ attitude! Great guy that JB!

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