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Long Range at EOT


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How many on here shot the long range side matches at EOT this year, or shot them at WR in the past?  This next year there will be a new person managing the long range side matches, and I’d like to start moving forward with some changes to bring you some events that you want to shoot.  
 

1 - What did you like about the LR events as they have been presented?

 

2 - What do you see that can be done better, and just as important how would you improve those things?

 

3 - If you don’t shoot the EOT LR portion, why not?

 

4 - Do you compete in other LR or BPCR matches outside SASS, and if so which ones?

 

5 - Finally are you willing to help by volunteering as a spotter, timer, expediter etc this next year?

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Haven't shot LR in SASS yet but gearing up for it.  Have shot multiple LR in the Military and civilian matches.

I would be willing to help in any way possible.

Cant add much more as I haven't been exposed to LR Cowboy yet.  BUT, very excited to give it a shot!  Ha!!!

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15 minutes ago, Randingo said:

Haven't shot LR in SASS yet but gearing up for it.

EOT/Ben Avery  has one of the few long range, ranges that is almost long range.  385 yrds/mtrs if I remember right. Most SASS ranges are 100 to 200 yards/meters.

The course of fire is sort of like speed rifle. Most hits in the fastest time.

Get set up those distances and sight acquisition and shots off as fast as you can.

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Most of the EOT long range matches are more clearly defined as "scored by most hits, with time as a tie breaker"    That clearly tells you which is more important - learn to hit every target, and once you do that, pick up your rate of fire while continuing to hit 'em all.   These are matches where "you CANNOT shoot fast enough to make up a miss." - unless your competitor has also missed.

 

good luck, GJ

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56 minutes ago, Buckshot Sheridan said:

How many on here shot the long range side matches at EOT this year, or shot them at WR in the past?  This next year there will be a new person managing the long range side matches, and I’d like to start moving forward with some changes to bring you some events that you want to shoot.  
 

1 - What did you like about the LR events as they have been presented?

Lots of options especially for those who wanted to spend the day. 

 

2 - What do you see that can be done better, and just as important how would you improve those things?

keep stage 13 open somehow. Saw several who had just rolled in and wanted to function check guns go away frustrated. 

 

3 - If you don’t shoot the EOT LR portion, why not?

to much to do and to little time. 

 

4 - Do you compete in other LR or BPCR matches outside SASS, and if so which ones?

No

5 - Finally are you willing to help by volunteering as a spotter, timer, expediter etc this next year?

yes  I did this year but the area I was supposed to be helping was done and packing when I got there 

Regards 

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

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I've seen "Long Range" events everywhere from 75 to 300 yards.   Some of that depends on what kind of a rifle you are using.   (I'm gonna leave out long rang pistol for now.)  I have heard of longer ranges, but have never seen them.  

 

Here are a few ideas that I like for long range shooting.

Even if it's out there at 300 yards, I like it to be a fairly big target.   If it's a small one, I just can't see it.  Yes, the farther away, the harder it should be, but far is one thing.  Far and small is a turn off.   

Let's a assume a collection of targets.   One each at 75, 100, 150, 200 and 300 yards.  (Distances can be adjusted due to range constraints and local preference, of course.)  They should all be the same size, at least 12" square.  

One of the most fun "Long Range" events was something I did once that was called, "The Rifleman."   You took 10 shots with a Main Match Rifle alternating at 2 targets, and then 5 more with a "Long Range Repeater" (ie, .30-30 to .45-70) at 2 more.   The Main Match rifle targets were at what I would call just beyond the normal max range of typical main match targets.   The Long Range targets were way back at the end of the bay, which was about 100-150 yards.   This was just fun to shoot.   Option:  Add in a .22 rifle for 10 more shots, going from smallest to largest.

 

I tend to find "There's your target way out there.  Take three sighters and then 10 shots at it, most hits wins" type events to be boring.  I'll DO them, as it allows me to use the guns, but there's not real pizzazz to such an event for me.  I don't enjoy shooting prone, from a bench, sitting, kneeling, using sticks, etc.   I like shouldering my rifle and seeing if I can hit the target.

 

A combination of a single shot rifle and a pistol can also be fun.

In other words, mix it up a little.   Allow for some variation.

Heck, a some sort of a 10-10-5-4, with the the 5 being from a long range rifle would be a heck of a lot of a fun.

 

Oh, and add the "Open" category, to allow the Winchester 95.  :)

That's what I like to see.

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53 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

EOT/Ben Avery  has one of the few long range, ranges that is almost long range.  385 yrds/mtrs if I remember right. Most SASS ranges are 100 to 200 yards/meters.

The course of fire is sort of like speed rifle. Most hits in the fastest time.

Get set up those distances and sight acquisition and shots off as fast as you can.

One section of the single shot rifle was at 290 give or take a few yards. The Quigley was at 385 Meters 3 shots offhand no slightest, and the Bison was 550 Meters, 10 rounds with a 10 minute time limit, time is the tie breaker. 

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6 minutes ago, Buckshot Sheridan said:

One section of the single shot rifle was at 290 give or take a few yards. The Quigley was at 385 Meters 3 shots offhand no slightest, and the Bison was 550 Meters, 10 rounds with a 10 minute time limit, time is the tie breaker. 

 

What's a meter?  :)   All my rifles are graduated in yards.

 

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2 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

What's a meter?  :)   All my rifles are graduated in yards.

 

Mine too, unfortunately the Silhouette range is in meters. Only two kinds of countries those who use metric and those who have put a man on the moon. 

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I like that I can shoot my buffalo rifle with black powder and not compete against those shooting smokeless rounds.  I also like that EOT publishes the distances to be used and doesn't change them at the last minute.  I have been matches where the distances were changed from what was published and only the locals knew about the changes before the match.  (Guess who won the long-range side matches?)  I like that the long-range matches are not short-range precision shooting and one might have to account for wind.  I shoot long range side matches elsewhere.  My next event will be the 4-Corners Regional.  I will not shoot black powder there.

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What are the rules on Rifle & Ammunition in the LR matches.  Single Shot, Lever Action??  Caliber restrictions?? Sights?

THX!!

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14 minutes ago, Randingo said:

What are the rules on Rifle & Ammunition in the LR matches.  Single Shot, Lever Action??  Caliber restrictions?? Sights?

THX!!

Here is EOT's info: https://endoftrail.org/long-range-events/.  See pages 29-31 of the Shooter Handbook for SASS requirements.

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i like shooting long range. however for something with a huge target at 300 yrds i will not waste the time to bring my guns. not worth the effort.

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I prefer long range to be more about hitting targets than just speed. Many around here are limited to 200 yds or so, but we do have a few that go further. 4-500 yds. 
I came up with a twist on the 200 yd course. 6 minute time limit.
 2 shots at 100, 150,175 then 4 at 200 

take sighters whenever you want, but must be clearly declared and are on the clock. 
if you hit all 10 targets you continue to shoot 200 yd target until you miss or run out of time. Most hits wins. 
for lever guns 5 minutes, start with magazine loaded. 

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I look forward to Cowboy Long Range!!

 

Shooting a $5000.00 Rifle with a $3000.00 Scope at targets ranging from 300-1300 yards using all kinds of fancy gizmos to basically cheat the stage is now common place in the Long Range Shooting arena.  It's really lost what it was meant to be. A test of marksmanship rather than a test of equipment and rule bending!!!

 

I miss the days we took our M1 Grands to the 1000 yard range.  No ballistic calculators, no wind meter, original iron sights only.  You really had to know your dope and be able to read the wind.

 

Chucking a 400+ grain chunk of lead propelled by black powder out to 300 sounds like a fun challenge to me!!!!

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2 hours ago, Buckshot Sheridan said:

Mine too, unfortunately the Silhouette range is in meters. Only two kinds of countries those who use metric and those who have put a man on the moon. 

I didn't know that Myanmar and Liberia landed folks on the moon.  Learn something new everyday.

 

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3 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

What's a meter?  :)   All my rifles are graduated in yards.

 

39.37008 inches or 100 centimeters or 1000 millimeters.  So now you know :)

 

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I've shot Winter Range and EOT long range matches for a number of years. They do a nice job and I thank all of the volunteers that make it happen. Personally I'd like to see more recognition for the more difficult stages, like the Bill Williams 500 meter and Quigley. These are the most difficult (in my opinion) matches and they only recognize first place and go down to 3rd in some of the easier stages. It was nice to see them seperate the ladies in some of the categories. Knowing the distances gives everyone the chance to practice.

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I haven't shot  our long range in quite some time.They start at about 300 & go out to 900.^ targets 5 rounds each.No timer.Life size animal.Bear deer.moose

Elk & Bison.Very few people shot it clean.

                                                                                                                     Largo

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SASS is the only sport that calls shooting at 300 yd targets, Long Range … It’s really one of the shooting distances for Mid Range Matchs which are … 200, 300 and 600.

Any match over 600 to 1000 is Long Range

Edited by John Boy
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18 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

 

 

17 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

I've seen "Long Range" events everywhere from 75 to 300 yards.   Some of that depends on what kind of a rifle you are using.   (I'm gonna leave out long rang pistol for now.)  I have heard of longer ranges, but have never seen them.  

 

Here are a few ideas that I like for long range shooting.

Even if it's out there at 300 yards, I like it to be a fairly big target.   If it's a small one, I just can't see it.  Yes, the farther away, the harder it should be, but far is one thing.  Far and small is a turn off.   

Let's a assume a collection of targets.   One each at 75, 100, 150, 200 and 300 yards.  (Distances can be adjusted due to range constraints and local preference, of course.)  They should all be the same size, at least 12" square.  

One of the most fun "Long Range" events was something I did once that was called, "The Rifleman."   You took 10 shots with a Main Match Rifle alternating at 2 targets, and then 5 more with a "Long Range Repeater" (ie, .30-30 to .45-70) at 2 more.   The Main Match rifle targets were at what I would call just beyond the normal max range of typical main match targets.   The Long Range targets were way back at the end of the bay, which was about 100-150 yards.   This was just fun to shoot.   Option:  Add in a .22 rifle for 10 more shots, going from smallest to largest.

 

I tend to find "There's your target way out there.  Take three sighters and then 10 shots at it, most hits wins" type events to be boring.  I'll DO them, as it allows me to use the guns, but there's not real pizzazz to such an event for me.  I don't enjoy shooting prone, from a bench, sitting, kneeling, using sticks, etc.   I like shouldering my rifle and seeing if I can hit the target.

 

A combination of a single shot rifle and a pistol can also be fun.

In other words, mix it up a little.   Allow for some variation.

Heck, a some sort of a 10-10-5-4, with the the 5 being from a long range rifle would be a heck of a lot of a fun.

 

Oh, and add the "Open" category, to allow the Winchester 95.  :)

That's what I like to see.

Amigo,

You shot with us and our  long range goes out to 700 yards!!

Edited by Jasper Agate
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My 2022 EOT observations.

 

Look at the results for 2022 EOT and previous years of Winter Range.  Many of the second place shooters have 10 hits.  There are events with many shooters getting 10 hits.  These have become speed events.  Having time as a tie breaker is fine, but not as the goal.  I still like the idea at ROOP County Days and Hell on Wheels.  Different target sizes (or same target at different distances).  Start on the easy target, once it is hit then move on the next target.  Continue for the remaining shots, shooting the next smaller target after each hit.  This can be done with 4-5 targets.   If you have a 100 yard range then use progressively smaller targets.  If you have 300+ yard range then use different distances.  Doing so allows new shooters a chance to "hit" something.  It allows experienced shooters to show their skills adjusting for distance "on the clock".  

 

For sites with 300+ yard ranges, there should be a sight-in day.  This helps to eliminate the home field advantages (wind and lighting)

 

For 2022 EOT long range there appeared to be some unknown algorithm for the number of places for awards.  Some went 3 deep other only one.  I believe that winter range went 3 deep on all categories.

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I would like to address the myth of "home field advantage". The EOT long range targets are shot only one day each year, at the Long Range side matches. The local ACSA club has not shot monthly long range matches in a few years. Nobody, including Buckshot Sheridan, knows the exact distances. He and his crew drop the targets wherever they "look right" and will sit level on the rocky Ben Avery range. As far as the wind and lighting, if you've been here you know how they change from day to day, even hour to hour and minute to minute.

 

Unfortunately, our tight schedule and range availability don't allow for a sight in day, although the Ben Avery public range is open Wednesday through Sunday with targets to 200 yards.

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There are also two other long range bays at Ben Avery,

300 yard and BPCR Silhouette (500 meters), which I believe was used for the bison and Quigley events.  They were not available to visitors the week before, only the 200 yard was available.  

Regarding the wind, it appears to change predictable during a given day.  There is likely a normal "sweet" spot at every range.  The same can be said for the sun angle, which changes week to week.  Locals tend to know, historically,  the ideal times.  

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At my 1st EOT, the long range event was about 200 yards... maybe a little less... Coto De Caza was not known as having a long range.  It required a single shot... designed before 1899, ISTR no metric calibers....  All I had was a copy of the .53 caliber "Santa Fe Hawken".  You had to climb up on a "horse"  (55gal bbl  Most hits to win, with time being the tie-breaker...  I just dumped 100 grains of 2F down the barrel, dropped in a .526 ball (no, no patch... time was a factor you know)... stuck on a cap and fired away...   I believe I hit the buffalo target 7 times... mighta only been 6... but I scared the bejesus outta it!

eot87-1.jpg?width=450&height=278&crop=fi

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2 hours ago, wyliefoxEsquire said:

There are also two other long range bays at Ben Avery,

300 yard and BPCR Silhouette (500 meters), which I believe was used for the bison and Quigley events.  They were not available to visitors the week before, only the 200 yard was available.  

Regarding the wind, it appears to change predictable during a given day.  There is likely a normal "sweet" spot at every range.  The same can be said for the sun angle, which changes week to week.  Locals tend to know, historically,  the ideal times.  

 The winners have typically not been local.  Jackpine Bill has won the Top Gun Long Range event(4 events combined) for the last 3-4 years and he's from Minnesota.  Other winners were from TX, NM, MS and CA and some from AZ as well

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I like Boulder Conyon  Bob  comments. It is hard to put on a long range with so many thing going on.  If you can shoot you will do good. I got a second  third and a forth just shoot.

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