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SASS Championship Buckle for 2022 EOT Category Champions


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9 hours ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

We would have loved to have the Remington's as first prize.  As a match we were known for it.  When SASS dictates the shooting categories and the addition ones that we had to offer (with zero additional contestants).  We simply could not afford it and maintain the cost.  You may remember that we ran a survey 3-5 years ago where we asked if folks wanted the same trophies or more categories - most said the trophies but now that we became the World Championship we didn't have the choice to limit the categories like we were before.    Additionally as I've mentioned before.  When EOT was at founders, the trophies were not great those last years.  The Plastic Globes were not nearly as nice as the Remington's.  And they stopped giving out the nice pewter "SASS Marshal's" after 2015-2016.  In 2017 the awards were sponsored by the NRA and yet the trophies were worse than before. (My 2nd place was a wooden plaque not a Marshal for example)

I believe your fees this year were higher than in 2020 and you had an additional 6 categories over 2020.

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In the event anyone forgot what this thread was originally about.  If you lost your championship buckle it may be under your name tag.   No buckles were harmed for this post and that is not my buckle just my badge.

 

 

image.png.6916c3cd906b32635dedb7d1107712b2.png

image.png.13260cfe984d6f7b5de009997ae0360e.png

Edited by Dillon Blue
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4 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

 

I guess we can at least read the name on the name tag

 

 

Well if I am being honest.   That was kinda small considering all the stuff they printed on it.  :D

image.png.52bc45bdb9d31246916c78443397edc4.png

Edited by Dillon Blue
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37 minutes ago, john brown said:

 In the attempt to satisfy all  you may find yourself satisfying  no one.

 

That is  what is known as being WOKE  ;)

Soooo...where is anyone trying to satisfy "All"???

 

Phantom

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31 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Soooo...where is anyone trying to satisfy "All"???

 

Phantom

  A mere thought Hey! You want to attend a Pickle Ball match I just bought a box of Photon Gamma Pickle Balls.:)

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16 minutes ago, john brown said:

  A mere thought Hey! You want to attend a Pickle Ball match I just bought a box of Photon Gamma Pickle Balls.:)

No, actually I take these topic rather seriously as SASS/CAS is rather important to me.

 

Phantom

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26 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

No, actually I take these topic rather seriously as SASS/CAS is rather important to me.

 

Phantom

  Like Wise

 

 Best Wishes and maybe in the future you will take me up on my offer.;)

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6 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I believe your fees this year were higher than in 2020 and you had an additional 6 categories over 2020.

36 categories in 2020,   55 categories in 2022.  Fee was $10 more and we had 77 requested categories before they were consolidated

Edited by Joe LaFives #5481
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8 hours ago, john brown said:

 Easy fix seeing YOUR club is actually in control  1 Raise fees  2 cut back on categories 3 set your club standards and stick to them and tell SASS HQ your requirements. Called tough LOVE

We don't get to choose to cut down on categories.  SASS requirement

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34 minutes ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

36 categories in 2020,   55 categories in 2022.  Fee was $10 more and we had 77 requested categories before they were consolidated

Where can one find the results of WR2020?

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27 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Where can one find the results of WR2020?

They were up on the winter range site through February.  And up on the EOT site until just a bit ago.  I don't do the site anymore.  I have the results on my PC and can send them to your email address if you would like.  Here is the breakdown of number of categories at WR for the last several years:

29 in 2008
29 in 2009
29 in 2010
30 in 2011
30 in 2012
31 in 2013
32 in 2014
33 in 2015
36 in 2016
37 in 2016
37 in 2017
36 in 2018
36 in 2019
36 in 2020

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1 hour ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

We don't get to choose to cut down on categories.  SASS requirement

 Then you raise the fee  Or tell SASS to find another site. Tough love

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4 minutes ago, john brown said:

 Then you raise the fee  Or tell SASS to find another site. Tough love

You know what a contract is right?

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10 minutes ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

You know what a contract is right?

 All contracts should be discussed and agreed upon by both parties before signing.  No one is having their arm twisted  to sign.

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As reflected in my previously posted SASS "Official" Category Matrix (and I do apologize for that wall of text, too much coffee!) there are 38 “Base Categories”, 19 Ladies categories and 19 Open (Men’s or Ladies).  I have reattached the graphical representation of that matrix here so folks don’t have to back track.

 

The extension of the age breaks to the Shooting Style categories (defined here as the Costuming Categories, the Black Powder Categories, and the Duelist/Gunfighter Categories) to create the Optional Categories created 128 additional “Optional Categories”, 64 Ladies and 64 Open (Men’s or Ladies), bringing the total number of possible categories to 156!

 

Mathematically, using the SASS guidelines of 7 in the Optional Open Categories (OOC – highly appropriate acronym :P) and 3 in the Optional Ladies Categories (OLC), plus the one each in the Base Categories (OBC and LBC), gives us the following:

 

19 OBC + 19 OLC + (7 x 64 OOC) + (3 x 64 OLC) = 19 + 19 + 448 + 192 = 678 shooters

 

So, in a match like Land Run and EOT, or any match where the number of shooters exceeds 678, it is entirely possible to have 156 First Place awards and in that instance, it is also likely that there will be twice that in Second Place and below awards, easily exceeding half of the total number of shooters present who are receiving an award.

 

I used to always say that 85% of the shooters paid for the awards for the top 15% of the shooters.  No real complaint about that, it was just the way of things, and some what necessary if the awards were to be really nice without the match fee exploding.  The current trend however is getting us to the point where 50% of the shooters are paying for the awards for the other 50% in order to support the larger number of categories and, as a result, the pricing pressures are pushing the awards to be less elaborate so they can be less expensive. (I do realize that everyone pays the same cost so that the 15% or 50% are also contributing to the cost of the awards, but the “excess” generated by those who do not get an award is dwindling.  The point still stands)

 

In my opinion, there are two ways that this will end.  Either we will continue to see a reduction in the quality of the awards as the number of awards rises, or we will see an increase in the price of the matches so that the awards can return to their former glory.  There is really no other option or mechanism that I can see other than to reduce the number of categories.  Ultimately, the shooters will decide what they want.  They will either pay the higher match fees, or accept the less expensive awards, or stop going to those matches.

 

For those that say there are too many award categories, start by never putting your age down on a Match Application and just sign up for the Base Category.  That is already an option for anyone to do, and it is what I choose to do.  While I am technically eligible to shoot Silver Senior Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter, I always sign up for FCGF without the age break.  Having gone from Traditional to FC to FCD, to FCGF, I have never shot in an age category, Base or Optional, and probably never will.  That is my choice, everyone is free to do the same or not.

 

SASS Official Category Matrix 26_2.pdf

Edited by Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L
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29 minutes ago, Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L said:

As reflected in my previously posted SASS "Official" Category Matrix (and I do apologize for that wall of text, too much coffee!) there are 38 “Base Categories”, 19 Ladies categories and 19 Open (Men’s or Ladies).  I have reattached the graphical representation of that matrix here so folks don’t have to back track.

 

The extension of the age breaks to the Shooting Style categories (defined here as the Costuming Categories, the Black Powder Categories, and the Duelist/Gunfighter Categories) to create the Optional Categories created 128 additional “Optional Categories”, 64 Ladies and 64 Open (Men’s or Ladies), bringing the total number of possible categories to 156!

 

Mathematically, using the SASS guidelines of 7 in the Optional Open Categories (OOC – highly appropriate acronym :P) and 3 in the Optional Ladies Categories (OLC), plus the one each in the Base Categories (OBC and LBC), gives us the following:

 

19 OBC + 19 OLC + (7 x 64 OOC) + (3 x 64 OLC) = 19 + 19 + 448 + 192 = 678 shooters

 

So, in a match like Land Run and EOT, or any match where the number of shooters exceeds 678, it is entirely possible to have 156 First Place awards and in that instance, it is also likely that there will be twice that in Second Place and below awards, easily exceeding half of the total number of shooters present who are receiving an award.

 

I used to always say that 85% of the shooters paid for the awards for the top 15% of the shooters.  No real complaint about that, it was just the way of things, and some what necessary if the awards were to be really nice without the match fee exploding.  The current trend however is getting us to the point where 50% of the shooters are paying for the awards for the other 50% in order to support the larger number of categories and, as a result, the pricing pressures are pushing the awards to be less elaborate so they can be less expensive. (I do realize that everyone pays the same cost so that the 15% or 50% are also contributing to the cost of the awards, but the “excess” generated by those who do not get an award is dwindling.  The point still stands)

 

In my opinion, there are two ways that this will end.  Either we will continue to see a reduction in the quality of the awards as the number of awards rises, or we will see an increase in the price of the matches so that the awards can return to their former glory.  There is really no other option or mechanism that I can see other than to reduce the number of categories.  Ultimately, the shooters will decide what they want.  They will either pay the higher match fees, or accept the less expensive awards, or stop going to those matches.

 

For those that say there are too many award categories, start by never putting your age down on a Match Application and just sign up for the Base Category.  That is already an option for anyone to do, and it is what I choose to do.  While I am technically eligible to shoot Silver Senior Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter, I always sign up for FCGF without the age break.  Having gone from Traditional to FC to FCD, to FCGF, I have never shot in an age category, Base or Optional, and probably never will.  That is my choice, everyone is free to do the same or not.

 

SASS Official Category Matrix 26_2.pdf 28.28 kB · 20 downloads

   YUP   this is NOT rocket science.

Thank You

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2 hours ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

They were up on the winter range site through February.  And up on the EOT site until just a bit ago.  I don't do the site anymore.  I have the results on my PC and can send them to your email address if you would like.  Here is the breakdown of number of categories at WR for the last several years:

29 in 2008
29 in 2009
29 in 2010
30 in 2011
30 in 2012
31 in 2013
32 in 2014
33 in 2015
36 in 2016
37 in 2016
37 in 2017
36 in 2018
36 in 2019
36 in 2020

Would like to see the categories recognized but I can't seem to find them on the EOT site. Do you have a link?

 

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On 3/25/2022 at 3:20 PM, Hells Comin said:

Keep Elder Statesmen and put everyone else into one Category. 

 

 

HC

Well your basic idea is ok, but your specific is totally flawed. We keep Cattle Baron.

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9 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

Well your basic idea is ok, but your specific is totally flawed. We keep Cattle Baron.

 

See, this is just like Congress. Everyone thinks Congress is full of a bunch of crooks EXCEPT their Congressman. They're great.

 

And since they are great, they get reelected, and nothing changes.

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1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Would like to see the categories recognized but I can't seem to find them on the EOT site. Do you have a link?

 

It's actually kind of bizarre, the old Winter Range scores (as is almost everything associated with Winter Range) seem to have been scrubbed from the internet.  Even the WayBack Machine internet archive has almost nothing.  I'm actually kind of impressed that they were able to completely remove it from existence. :o  Once something hits the internet, it usually takes on a life of its own.

Edited by Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L
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1 hour ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

See, this is just like Congress. Everyone thinks Congress is full of a bunch of crooks EXCEPT their Congressman. They're great.

 

And since they are great, they get reelected, and nothing changes.

Amen!!

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4 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Would like to see the categories recognized but I can't seem to find them on the EOT site. Do you have a link?

 

I don't again.  I retired from the board last September and I don't do the website anymore.  I'll send you 2020 and 2022 right now via email.

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6 hours ago, john brown said:

 All contracts should be discussed and agreed upon by both parties before signing.  No one is having their arm twisted  to sign.

Doesn't change any fact of the matter.  You asked, I answered.

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3 hours ago, Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L said:

It's actually kind of bizarre, the old Winter Range scores (as is almost everything associated with Winter Range) seem to have been scrubbed from the internet.  Even the WayBack Machine internet archive has almost nothing.  I'm actually kind of impressed that they were able to completely remove it from existence. :o  Once something hits the internet, it usually takes on a life of its own.

No it's no scrubbed.  The contract with Go Daddy hosting for the website ran out.  While we still have the domain name for 3 more years.  What is being discussed is do they need it anymore.  No conspiracy here.

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Sorry if it  came across like I thought WinterRange did it on purpose.  I know for a fact that GoDaddy is an expert at scrubbing their servers if something expires.  They still have it archived some where, and will let you have it back, for whatever exorbitant amount of money they think you are willing to pay.  It's part of their business model, kind of like Pirates. :rolleyes:

 

I was just surprised that it was gone from everywhere.  Usually, things exist somewhere in the vast array of servers connected to the internet.  When someone links to something a residue remains.  It was just bizarre to see it was completely gone.

 

I did stumble across the Wild Bunch scores during my search, but never hit on the Cowboy scores.

 

No accusations intended and certainly didn't mean to imply any.

 

 

Edited by Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L
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I have refrained from posting on this thread, to set the record straight the buckle that the bingo winner received was purchased by a Arizona Territorial Rough Rider with his own money. No good deed goes unpunished!

 

TB

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17 minutes ago, Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118 said:

I have refrained from posting on this thread, to set the record straight the buckle that the bingo winner received was purchased by a Arizona Territorial Rough Rider with his own money. No good deed goes unpunished!

 

TB

I don't think anyone is attacking the Bingo Buckle nor it's winner...nor it's Sponsor.

 

I think the whole point of this thread is that the traditional awards were not given. Years of cool Remington Bronzes were given to the WR winners...EOT has always given out real nice buckles. Neither were given this year.

 

This is a point of conversation...folks needn't take it as a personal attack.

 

Phantom

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