Moonshine 20515 Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 Hello the fire! I have a question. I suspect I know the answer but can't find a reference for it. Let us say (hypothetically speaking) that two pards agree on a transaction for a Pistol. They live in different states. So normally the seller would ship to the buyers FFL, or the seller would have his FFL ship to the buyers FFL. However, in this case the seller is headed out to a shoot in the buyer's state. So, they agree to meet up and complete the transaction "face to face". Now, "face to face" by 2 folks from the same state is lawful. The question is if the 2 people meet up in the buyer's state, is that a legal "face to face" transaction. Thanks in advance, MS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 Depends on the state laws. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin Mad Murdock SASS #4037 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 NO. 18 U.S. Code § 922 - Unlawful acts (a) It shall be unlawful— (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapshot Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Moonshine 20515 said: Hello the fire! I have a question. I suspect I know the answer but can't find a reference for it. Let us say (hypothetically speaking) that two pards agree on a transaction for a Pistol. They live in different states. So normally the seller would ship to the buyers FFL, or the seller would have his FFL ship to the buyers FFL. However, in this case the seller is headed out to a shoot in the buyer's state. So, they agree to meet up and complete the transaction "face to face". Now, "face to face" by 2 folks from the same state is lawful. The question is if the 2 people meet up in the buyer's state, is that a legal "face to face" transaction. Thanks in advance, MS No , its that simple. You may not do a individual transaction with people from other states. All individual sales of firearms involving people of a different state must go through a FFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 It depends on whether the pistol is classified as an "antique firearm." That section of federal law quoted by Howlin Mad Murdock prohibits private transfers by residents of different states of "any firearm." But the last sentence of the definition of "firearm" in 18 USC 921(a)(3) says: "Such term does not include an antique firearm." For some fun reading, here is the ATF's interpretation of the law's definition of "antique firearm": https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-guides-importation-verification-firearms-ammunition-gun-control-act-definitions-0 So, the OP's scenario does not include enough information to enable answering the question. If the pistol is a Glock 19, the answer to his question is no. If it is an original Smith & Wesson First Model Schofield, the answer is yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 I've always wondered about that, as I see a lot of folks advertising a gun to sell "face to face" at some major shoot or another, but BATFE'S Web site very explicitly states all Interstate gun sales must go through an FFL holder and a background check conducted. Even if there is an FFL holder present at the match, they may be able to take possession of the firearm from the seller, but cannot sell/transfer it directly to the buyer outside of their business premise, other than at a sanctioned gun show in their own state of residence. Joe from Idaho cannot go to match in Oklahoma, and sell his set of revolvers directly to Bill from Nebraska. Nor could an FFL holder from any state facilitate a face to face sale at the match. The FFL holder could take possession of the guns (I think...), take them to his business premise, then ship them to another FFL holder in the buyer's state where a 4473 and background check would be conducted. If a gun, a modern, post-1899 cartridge gun, changes possession/ownership across state lines, a 4473 must be filled out and a background check conducted... unless it's between 50 and 73 years old, making it C&R eligible, in which case it could be sold by an out-of-state C&R holder directly to a buyer... I think - state laws permitting, of course. Next year, of course, it would be 50-74 years old, and the year after, 50-75 years, and so on. Oddly enough, the law is slightly different between a Type 1 and a Type 3 FFL. A Type 1 licensee cannot sell outside of his business premise, but a Type 3 can... I think... A Type 2 (pawn shop FFL) follows the same rules as a type 1... I think. The more you try to understand it, the more non-sensical it becomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Good lord... No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine 20515 Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 Thank you all for your input. I was Well, that didn't go well. Thank you all for your input. I was sure this was not allowed but was looking for something at the ATF web site that said that. Have a great week and keep yer powder dry .... MS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine 20515 Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 The example was a modern revolver and state laws didn't apply .. Oh, and this was purely hypothetical, and no one got killed and no animals were injured .... Adios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Moonshine 20515 said: ...Oh, and this was purely hypothetical, and no one got killed and no animals were injured .... Adios not even tasty animals?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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