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WTC. Hot brass


Rebel Bill

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Shooter moves to staged rifle. Fires several rounds, a hot piece of brass finds its way under shooters shirt or blouse. Shooter drops rifle on table hammer back on live round. Both hands clear of rifle. WTC.

Rebel Bill

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SDQ for hands leaving a long gun with a round under the hammer. Chortles to guffaws from the posse for the antics. I Told You To Wear A Hat from Pard/Spouse. Another life lesson in the book.

 

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Dropped loaded gun sounds a lot like a MDQ to me. 

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Do not know about WTC.  But have offered to help some ladies in that predicament.   PS   it is best to ask first!!!      GW

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I suppose if shooter placed long gun on table it may only be a SDQ. But OP says dropped. If shooter just threw gun down it’s a MDQ. 
 

I once had a piece of hot brass get caught between my glasses and my cheek. Yup it burned, left a scar. But I didn’t throw my gun down. 

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When I was Civil War reenacting I used a Uberti 1860 Henry rifle which is a lot like a 1873 where the spent shell casings fly out the top and over your shoulder.  I shot black powder blanks made from 44mag brass.  When the time came to get ready for the battle reenactment portion of the weekend I noticed that the wind was gusting very strongly and I figured my slouch hat (a hat with a brim all the way around) might blow off.  So I decided to ware my Bummer cap (a hat with only a peak on the front).  After about 50 rounds passed threw my Henry one of the fired brass casings decided to go down my shirt collar.  For anyone not familiar with the temperature of Black Powder cases after being fired from an already very hot gun they are really really hot.  I did drop my gun but could not get my leathers & coat off fast enough.  It eventually stopped burning and when I got back to camp I had a nice burn mark on my shoulder. 

But this taught me a lesson.  Before the next reenactment I put a stampede string on my slouch hat so that I could ware it even in windy conditions and have the protection of the wide brim so I didn’t get burned again.  When I started Cowboy reenacting and CAS I put a stampede string on both my cowboy hats.  You see you can teach an old dog new tricks it just takes a little pain therapy. 

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IMO, SDQ. Cocked loaded gun left the shooters hand.

I have been to transition classes where we were told to drop the rifle and let gravity do its job. (I dont do this, probably flunked the class)

As Branchwater stated above. gun Comes to rest at a location or position other than where it was intended.

I am assuming the shooter intended the rifle to come to rest on the table. If it had bounced off the table it would have been a different story.

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1 hour ago, Tn Tombstone said:

IMO, SDQ. Cocked loaded gun left the shooters hand.

I have been to transition classes where we were told to drop the rifle and let gravity do its job. (I dont do this, probably flunked the class)

As Branchwater stated above. gun Comes to rest at a location or position other than where it was intended.

I am assuming the shooter intended the rifle to come to rest on the table. If it had bounced off the table it would have been a different story.

Playing devil’s advocate, no table. Shooter dropped gun on ground. (Does not break 170) that’s where shooter intended gun to go. Waddya think?

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Dang Hoss, don't even want to think about that one. I have layed a gun on the ground before when there was not a table but not dropped it. I would have to go to PW for that call.

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A dropped loaded gun is a MATCH DQ.  Somedays you're the bug... somedays you're the windshield... this day you were the bug!

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51 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Playing devil’s advocate, no table. Shooter dropped gun on ground. (Does not break 170) that’s where shooter intended gun to go. Waddya think?

 I did that once.  Cleared it with the MD up front.  But this was many years ago.  No sure how it would be called now if it was all fully intentional.

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6 hours ago, Hoss said:

Dropped loaded gun sounds a lot like a MDQ to me. 

If we're going to play according to the written rules, then MDQ (if gun was dropped) 

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So...pulling the thread of this WTC, consider the following...

 

Shooter is supposed to shoot 10 rounds and stage rifle on table.

 

Shooter shoots 9, and transitions to the pistol, releasing the rifle approximately 12 to 18 inches off the table, where gravity takes over and the rifle successfully lands on the table.

 

At the conclusion of the stage, the rifle is inspected and it is discovered that the half of the 10th round is in the chamber of the rifle.

 

WTC, and how is this different from the OP?

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27 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

So...pulling the thread of this WTC, consider the following...

 

Shooter is supposed to shoot 10 rounds and stage rifle on table.

 

Shooter shoots 9, and transitions to the pistol, releasing the rifle approximately 12 to 18 inches off the table, where gravity takes over and the rifle successfully lands on the table.

 

At the conclusion of the stage, the rifle is inspected and it is discovered that the half of the 10th round is in the chamber of the rifle.

 

WTC, and how is this different from the OP?

The major differences are that in the original post the hammer is back, action closed with a live round in chamber, in your example the hammer back, action open presumably and would have a live round on carrier.

The other difference is one of intent, in your post shooter intended to place rifle where it landed and expedited its arrival, in the original post it specifically says dropped and given the circumstances mentioned i don't think he intended anything. Therefore with available info I'd have to fo with mdq. If I'm wrong please correct what I got wrong, I hate mdq's and would prefer not to have anyone get one without just cause.

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13 minutes ago, Jay Vendetta said:

The major differences are that in the original post the hammer is back, action closed with a live round in chamber, in your example the hammer back, action open presumably and would have a live round on carrier.

The other difference is one of intent, in your post shooter intended to place rifle where it landed and expedited its arrival, in the original post it specifically says dropped and given the circumstances mentioned i don't think he intended anything. Therefore with available info I'd have to fo with mdq. If I'm wrong please correct what I got wrong, I hate mdq's and would prefer not to have anyone get one without just cause.

Our rulebook has rules, and those rules have words. The definition of those words, found in the end of the shooter's handbook, sometimes differ from the dictionary definition of those rules.

 

Both of these scenarios indicated that there was a round in the chamber. So, that's not different.

 

The word dropped in our rules has a definition. Based on the op, we don't know the intent of where the shooter intended the rifle to come to rest. Ro3 tells me that it is a safe presumption that they intended to come to rest on the table, cuz that makes sense.

 

Don't let a word (incorrectly used based on our games definition) be a red herring that keeps us from getting to the root of the matter.

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15 hours ago, Rebel Bill said:

Shooter moves to staged rifle. Fires several rounds, a hot piece of brass finds its way under shooters shirt or blouse. Shooter drops rifle on table hammer back on live round. Both hands clear of rifle. WTC.

Rebel Bill

There's nothing here about whether the action is open or closed.  If it's open, there is no call to make unless another gun is fired before retrieving the rifle.  If closed, SDQ.  If open, AND another gun gets fired (or the rifle gets set down on the UT), minor safety plus misses for any unfired rounds. 

 

Same answer for Branchwater Jack

EDIT: I stand corrected below on Branchwater Jack's scenario.

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SHB page 42 as Branchwater pointed out. The definition of a dropped gun is a position not a distance.

 

 

If the shooter did not lay/slam/place the rifle on the table but let it go two inches above the table did they drop it? Technically yes, per the SHB no they did not since it remand in intended position.

 

Branchwater you posted yours as I was typing my reply.

 

 

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55 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

So...pulling the thread of this WTC, consider the following...

 

Shooter is supposed to shoot 10 rounds and stage rifle on table.

 

Shooter shoots 9, and transitions to the pistol, releasing the rifle approximately 12 to 18 inches off the table, where gravity takes over and the rifle successfully lands on the table.

 

At the conclusion of the stage, the rifle is inspected and it is discovered that the half of the 10th round is in the chamber of the rifle.

 

WTC, and how is this different from the OP?

SDQ 

my difference from the OP was it was a deliberate act, under “control” 
 

Throwing/dropping fully cocked rifle because of a hot piece of brass is different.  


again, I’d think it would have to be a judgement call by TO on scene. Shooters says OWWW that burns and places rifle down safely is one thing. Shooter hollering OWWW and flinching/throwing/dropping gun is another. 

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7 minutes ago, Fretless said:

There's nothing here about whether the action is open or closed.  If it's open, there is no call to make unless another gun is fired before retrieving the rifle.  If closed, SDQ.  If open, AND another gun gets fired (or the rifle gets set down on the UT), minor safety plus misses for any unfired rounds.  Same answer for Branchwater Jack

 

If any part of any round is in the chamber, it is a stage dq. The action can be completely open, with 1 mm of the nose of the bullet in the chamber, it's a stage DQ.

 

SHB pg 22

Quote

Staging or discarding a long gun containing a live round in the chamber (once it leaves the shooter’s hands). 

 

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I know hindsight is 20/20 but couldn't the shooter have held on to his rifle with one hand and dealt with the hot brass with the other? 

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3 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

If any part of any round is in the chamber

Ah, yes.  I misread.  I was looking at the pocket RO card.

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2 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I know hindsight is 20/20 but couldn't the shooter have held on to his rifle with one hand and dealt with the hot brass with the other? 

 

They could have also opened the lever and set the gun down without penalty (as long as a round was not in the chamber), and picked it back up to continue the string.

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7 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I know hindsight is 20/20 but couldn't the shooter have held on to his rifle with one hand and dealt with the hot brass with the other? 

Rye, are you volunteering to test that theory? ^_^

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21 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I know hindsight is 20/20 but couldn't the shooter have held on to his rifle with one hand and dealt with the hot brass with the other? 

I also forgot to mention that the shooter could have set the gun down with a hammer down on a expended cartridge. They could have then fished out the brass, picked up the gun, and finished the string.

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6 hours ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

Rye, are you volunteering to test that theory? ^_^

Sure how much you gonna pay??:)

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 HOT BRASS  Did I tell you about the Hot Female Lieutenant I met at the Officers club in Danang back in 68. 

SORRY   wrong HOT BRASS.:D

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