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Which clubs can handle BIG matches?


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I hear a lot of ‘it’s tough’ ‘can’t be done’ ‘won’t happen’ ‘don’t encourage him’.  Given how fast SASS is growing I can understand why folks don’t want to mess with a ‘winning’ formula.

 

Yet, back when EOT was happening at Paradise Pass I was hearing about how many more people would be shooting the match when it moved to Phoenix ‘permanently’. 
 

How come that didn’t happen? Including the waiting list PP had as many, or more, people wanting to sign up as Phoenix did.

Edited by Captain Bill Burt
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11 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I hear a lot of ‘it’s tough’ ‘can’t be done’ ‘won’t happen’ ‘don’t encourage him’.  Given how fast SASS is growing I can understand why folks don’t want to mess with a ‘winning’ formula.

 

Yet, back when EOT was happening at Paradise Pass I was hearing about how many more people would be shooting the match when it moved to Phoenix ‘permanently’. 
 

How come that didn’t happen? Including the waiting list PP had as many, or more, people wanting to sign up as Phoenix did.

Not true.  We had 756 sign up originally - and 150 on the waiting list - After the cancelations due to the Omnicron etc. we filled with the waiting list and ended up with 721.  That's 200 over PP.

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10 hours ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

Not true.  We had 756 sign up originally - and 150 on the waiting list - After the cancelations due to the Omnicron etc. we filled with the waiting list and ended up with 721.  That's 200 over PP.

Read my post more carefully please. I did not say they SOLD as many, I said without their capacity constraints they could have sold as many.


Paradise Pass filled up to 500 plus a waiting list of over 150, in less than a day.  If you count the waiting list, PP could have sold as many or more for EOT, they just didn’t have space.

 

Just to be clear, I’m not criticizing your club or the match they put on. If it wasn’t 2,000 miles away I would be happy to attend EOT in Phoenix.

 

I’m simply pointing out that there is as much interest in attending EOT in the eastern portion of the country as there is in the western portion, perhaps more.

Edited by Captain Bill Burt
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3 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

 

 

I’m simply pointing out that there is as much interest in attending EOT in the eastern portion of the country as there is in the western portion, perhaps more.

Don’t know if it is correct or not but I thought I saw a stat on the wire somewhere that FL has more members than any other state? 

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1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

You guys are wasting your breath...

I thought you retired from wire

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6 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Read my post more carefully please. I did not say they SOLD as many, I said without their capacity constraints they could have sold as many.


Paradise Pass filled up to 500 plus a waiting list of over 150, in less than a day.  If you count the waiting list, PP could have sold as many or more for EOT, they just didn’t have space.

 

Just to be clear, I’m not criticizing your club or the match they put on. If it wasn’t 2,000 miles away I would be happy to attend EOT in Phoenix.

 

I’m simply pointing out that there is as much interest in attending EOT in the eastern portion of the country as there is in the western portion, perhaps more.

And I'm sure that's true, but the key is "capacity constraints ".  That's what this thread is about.  What clubs can handle 750+ shooters.  And I'm also very sure there are a lot of shooters back east that would love to go to End of Trail.  Heck when it moved to NM from California a LOT of new folks showed up just because it was a 1000 miles closer.  

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On 3/11/2022 at 7:10 AM, Captain Bill Burt said:

I hear a lot of ‘it’s tough’ ‘can’t be done’ ‘won’t happen’ ‘don’t encourage him’.  

Captain:  Those "don't encourage him"" remarks are just gratitude disguised as sarcastic humor.  You are one of the few free thinkers who will speak his mind and encourage others. 

 

And you are one of a few to take a pounding at the hands of these on-line Karen's - and punch right back !!  (love ya man !)

 

The professional Association world has these things figured-out, and we should take note.  The American Academy of ( insert the name of your industry here) doesn't go to Vegas every year, because people will stop coming for various reasons.  There will always be a core of attendees regardless of location, and moving locations draws fresh faces from the different regions.  Three year contracts are typical for larger meeting because of all the logistical items already mentioned.

 

And the idea of Volunteerism is great, and having everyone in The Club pitch-in is important - but naïve,   Every Association or Group has people who give more of themselves, but to be a successful event, "value" changes hands.  Whether it's cash payments, payroll, or hired 3rd parties - don't think the Masters (Golf Tournament)  is put on by the volunteer efforts of the good members of The Club. 

 

There is a huge difference between a "almost-Free & Volunteer-only" event and a professionally managed affair.

 

See ya down the trail !

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25 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

You keep responding to my posts like I might care... fascinating...

Ditto

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On 3/1/2022 at 10:13 AM, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

A pard asked me why they don’t move EOT around every year.  My response was, in big part, there are very few clubs around the country that can handle a match that size.  And then I started to wonder- Are there any at all east of the Mississippi?

 Another vote for Paradise Pass. Also think that Bluewater Sportsman Club in Port Huron, MI might at least size wise.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Many hurdles have to be cleared to put on a successful large (800+) match.
1) volunteers

2) range at least 12 stages

3) parking for shooters at least 600 spaces per wave maybe more

4) banquet facilities

5) hotels close by

6) campgrounds close by

7) capital to handle expenses

 

Taking all of this into consideration. SASS has probably made the best choice for awhile.  

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When we decided on the shooter limit for EOT at Paradise Pass we I did so thoughtfully. And we didn’t know what we didn’t know. We went with what we absolutely knew we could deliver the decided number of shooter with the best possible experience. Having now done it we know that it’s possible to deliver a great time to a significantly higher number of shooters. Another consideration to think about that sadly has to be considered is the local political climate of whatever location is being talked about and who owns the range (private? State? Federal?). 

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10 hours ago, Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 said:

When we decided on the shooter limit for EOT at Paradise Pass we I did so thoughtfully. And we didn’t know what we didn’t know. We went with what we absolutely knew we could deliver the decided number of shooter with the best possible experience. Having now done it we know that it’s possible to deliver a great time to a significantly higher number of shooters. Another consideration to think about that sadly has to be considered is the local political climate of whatever location is being talked about and who owns the range (private? State? Federal?). 

D,

From the limited time of was at PP/EOT I could see that there appeared to be room for expansion if and when time dictated to do so.  Oklahoma Territorial Marshalls have proven that it can be done as they continue to expand more parking and vending area for upcoming National Championships.

PP did a great job in a limited time to host a fine EOT in 2021.

 

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Paradise Pass did an excellent job on short notice hosting EOT 2021, had they not stepped up there would have been no EOT. I’m pretty sure with a bit more time and planning PP could handle 800 plus shooters and from what I’ve heard there was plenty of help to get things done. Alternating EOT locations would be good for the sport, in my opinion.

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On 3/12/2022 at 3:23 AM, Captain Bill Burt said:

Read my post more carefully please. I did not say they SOLD as many, I said without their capacity constraints they could have sold as many.


Paradise Pass filled up to 500 plus a waiting list of over 150, in less than a day.  If you count the waiting list, PP could have sold as many or more for EOT, they just didn’t have space.

 

Just to be clear, I’m not criticizing your club or the match they put on. If it wasn’t 2,000 miles away I would be happy to attend EOT in Phoenix.

 

I’m simply pointing out that there is as much interest in attending EOT in the eastern portion of the country as there is in the western portion, perhaps more.

EOT's past could have sold many more spots, regardless of California or NM or PP or BASF...or ???

Every range, township, infrastructure has restraints.

To allow more people means to add more days to get them through the stages.

More days means more cost going to the range fees, wich means more cost to the competitor.

More vacation days needed to shoot the match (wich I believe heard you say in an earlier  post was one reason you (and some others) would not attend a match in the West)

Folks....there are SOOOOOOOOOOO many factors to holding a match of 800 ppl...

It would be great if everyone could have one in their backyard...just doesn't happen.

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I am going to say a little more, and then done.

 

We raised 6 kids...

A medium income.

Kids did sports, music.

Most vacations were around family.

In the 17 years of kids, we took 3 trips, one to California, one to Iowa and one to Georgia, for family reunions.

We came home and ate lots of beans and rice afterwards.

 

We found SASS after it came to NM.

FR is 20 min away.

We still took 11 days vacation, hauled camper(s) out, and spent almost as much for food, and gas for gennies, ect...in order to enjoy our big match in our backyard.

 

We decided to do one out of state shoot a year. These had to be driveable with vacation days built up...

2008 I think we went to Tin Star

We went to CAC (BAC) in 2010.

2012 started WR...

LR about 2014...

We did attend EOT at PP.

Plan on Black Gold in a year or so....

 

It all comes down to what we can do, with the means we have.

We could not do what we do without some things:

5 weeks vacation PAID

Truck and trailer

Free dry camping on ranges

*very affordable camping (at BASF dry camp, we paid under $265 for 22 days.)

 

We don't eat out much.

We don't spend much.

We don't have but monthly bills and a mortgage...no credit card debt or auto payments.

 

We have saved, scrimped and shared for years to have what we have today, to do what we want to do.

 

Regardless of where/what/when there is a match we want to go to...we plan accordingly and go.

 

Do I feel blessed? Yes.

Thanks for listening.

Off my soap box now.

 

 

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On 3/12/2022 at 7:38 AM, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

You guys are wasting your breath...

Well...not entirely.

Discussion is always a goid thing. 

But when you have a set stance, no discussion will change it.

By the way...THANK YOU again for you help on Side Match over the years!!!:wub:

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2 hours ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

Well...not entirely.

Discussion is always a goid thing. 

But when you have a set stance, no discussion will change it.

By the way...THANK YOU again for you help on Side Match over the years!!!:wub:

You are right...I think debates are the only way to bring out the best solutions. And I think for the most part, folks are wanting what is best for the game...with a little bit of self interest sprinkled in :rolleyes:

 

And thank you for the "Thank You". Nine Toe Joe talked me into helping on the Side Matches back in 2005. While I've missed a couple WR's...think...2 or 3...I've never missed helping on Side Match day. I enjoy it...and I feel like I'm at least giving something back.

 

PS: I actually do it for the fantastic food and drink you supply us helpers with:D

 

Phantom

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4 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

You are right...I think debates are the only way to bring out the best solutions. And I think for the most part, folks are wanting what is best for the game...with a little bit of self interest sprinkled in :rolleyes:

 

And thank you for the "Thank You". Nine Toe Joe talked me into helping on the Side Matches back in 2005. While I've missed a couple WR's...think...2 or 3...I've never missed helping on Side Match day. I enjoy it...and I feel like I'm at least giving something back.

 

PS: I actually do it for the fantastic food and drink you supply us helpers with:D

 

Phantom

Kisses!!!:wub:

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Deuce,

Y’all put on a great match for EOT last year. I could see you have room for more shooters. I also see why you played close to vest first time. I hope to come back sometime. Volunteers are the key to this game we play. 

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On 3/13/2022 at 9:13 PM, Chickamauga Charlie, SASS #47963 said:

I'm convinced the man has hypnotic powers and could be dangerous 

That's the best comment about me I've ever had! Love you man, and will keep this comment posted in one form or another so I can see it and reflect upon it for the rest of my life. 

 

You honor me Sir, and thank YOU and your Honey for your past multiple years commitment y'all have made to WR. You kids are simply great!

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  • 1 month later...
On 3/14/2022 at 9:45 PM, Nine Toe Joe #25190 said:

That's the best comment about me I've ever had! Love you man, and will keep this comment posted in one form or another so I can see it and reflect upon it for the rest of my life. 

 

You honor me Sir, and thank YOU and your Honey for your past multiple years commitment y'all have made to WR. You kids are simply great!

Ive been off the wire since this post or would have responded sooner. You honor me sir! You and DJ are truly what makes this game great. You open your home and hearts to total strangers and make us family. (And wont take no for an answer :D ) much love to you both.

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