Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Ukraine has enacted a number of positive reforms since the protest-driven ouster of President Viktor Yanukovych in 2014. However, corruption remains endemic, and initiatives to combat it are only partially implemented. Attacks against journalists, civil society activists, and members of minority groups are frequent. According to a poll conducted by Ernst & Young in 2017, experts considered Ukraine to be the ninth-most corrupt nation in the world. Ukrainian politicians and analysts have described the system of justice in Ukraine as "rotten to the core" and have complained about political pressure put on judges and corruption. Independent lawyers and human rights activists have complained Ukrainian judges regularly come under pressure to hand down a certain verdict. Though medical care in state-run hospitals is theoretically free for Ukrainians, patients' paying money there to ensure they receive the treatment required is widespread. It is not like Russia is invading Belgium. No, I don't like Russia invading, but I don't believe we should be messing in this. If they were a NATO country, then the gloves are off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Well said!! Exactly what I've been thinking and I was afraid to say it for fear of being crucified! My heart goes out to the people of Ukraine though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 I have seen the corruption first hand. Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D. Daily Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Other than the Baltics are any of the the countries that were part of the USSR not kleptocracies? It is obvious that except for the two regions in the south east the citizens hate ethnic Russians. I am afraid that if the Ukrainians can't inflict enough pain on the invaders, the calls in NATO countries for imposing a no fly zone west of the Denieper river will be heeded. This may put NATO aircraft in close contact with Russian aircraft. Hopefully NATO will ship enough Javelins & Stingers to pin Ivan down. That won't keep Ivan from pounding Ukraine with precision guided explosives that are deployed outside the range of MANPADS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 No country; past, present, or future was/is/will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Guam is 99.44% corrupt as well. So the point is... ? In case you missed it... D.C. is in that 99th percentile as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 The only drawback to sending a bunch of stinger missile systems to a place like Ukraine is, after the conflict, you never know where they are going to end up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 So the Russians are attacking to eliminate corruption and restore the integrity of the judicial system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Before anyone really gets up on there "Let's Go Kick Butt" soap box, you should first consider the logistics. We don't have enough airlift capability to get sufficient troops on the ground to do anything useful. We don't have enough Sealift capability to support sufficient troop movement to make a difference in a reasonable amount of time. It'll be over before we can start. Those whom question where America's might has gone, are those who desire us to sacrifice our forces rather than theirs. The bleeding hearts bemoaning the plight of Ukraine would be vocal in a completely different vein were it their youth bleeding for something that ISN'T OUR FIGHT. Never doubt, if back into a corner, Putin or his replacement, would go Nuclear. Never doubt, if backed into a corner, WE would also go Nuclear. Frankly, Ukraine simply isn't worth it. Let 'em fight their own fight. Win, Lose, or Draw, doesn't matter to us. The Balkans?? Same Same situational analysis. When the USSR broke up, and the western powers felt the Cold War was done, we packed up our stuff for fighting a conventional conflict and brought it home. Think about that. What does it leave?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 16 minutes ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said: So the Russians are attacking to eliminate corruption and restore the integrity of the judicial system? Нет. No, of course not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 As a proud American I do feel that our own "moral high ground" isn't as lofty as it once was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 The founding fathers were pretty smart. Most of what they did still applies more than two centuries later. The Monroe Docteine has two parts. Part #1 says that European nations should not be in the Americas. Part #2 says that the USA should not be in Europe. My thought is that we should meet with other 29 NATO nations and tell them to handle this. We will likely be alone in facing China if they attack Taiwan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted February 28, 2022 Author Share Posted February 28, 2022 7 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: ... Exactly what I've been thinking and I was afraid to say it for fear of being crucified! ... Nothing like a good crucifixion among friends... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Its a hard road for America, you were the worlds Sheriff, a position that many Presidencies over decades worked hard to uphold. A position that many Americans were extremely proud of their country for. If you fail to be that now, the anti US countries see that as the US being a failed world leader and leader of the free world and a rapidly declining super power. It give countries like China and Russia enormous inroads to fill vacuums. Since I was born, the US being the worlds sheriff has made for a pretty safe world, its hard to imagine the US not being in that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Nichols, SASS #6461 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 What ticks me off as an American is that Joe promised sanctions would stop this. 2 days alter he said we knew sanctions wouldn't work. The Ukrainians never asked us to fight. Rather they asked for military aid. Weren't we , the US the defender of democracy around the world. Ans YES they are a democracy. Something we are no longer I fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 3 hours ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said: The only drawback to sending a bunch of stinger missile systems to a place like Ukraine is, after the conflict, you never know where they are going to end up. Precisely, it's the ending of "Charlie Wilson's War"....a great movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 53 minutes ago, Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 said: Nothing like a good crucifixion among friends... I think it was more od a tar and feathers scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 I am afraid that Canada is not Much better in the area of Government Corruption under the Liberal PM ... We are sliding down in the rankings Rather Fast .... But there are still good honest folk fighting for what is Right! There But for the Grace of GOD go I too !!! Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Maybe it’s time for Europe to quit waiting for us to act and take care of their own business for a change. They love to look down on us, but they love that money and support that they get from us. I know, let’s round up all the Antifa scum and ship their arses over there. They can fight for either side, from my perspective. It would be the perfect way to “give back” to Europe. As if we really “get” much from them anyway. …and I said I was going to be quiet… Oh, and they can keep our Commies. We don’t want them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 11 hours ago, Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 said: Ukraine has enacted a number of positive reforms since the protest-driven ouster of President Viktor Yanukovych in 2014. However, corruption remains endemic, and initiatives to combat it are only partially implemented. Attacks against journalists, civil society activists, and members of minority groups are frequent. According to a poll conducted by Ernst & Young in 2017, experts considered Ukraine to be the ninth-most corrupt nation in the world. Ukrainian politicians and analysts have described the system of justice in Ukraine as "rotten to the core" and have complained about political pressure put on judges and corruption. Independent lawyers and human rights activists have complained Ukrainian judges regularly come under pressure to hand down a certain verdict. Though medical care in state-run hospitals is theoretically free for Ukrainians, patients' paying money there to ensure they receive the treatment required is widespread. It is not like Russia is invading Belgium. No, I don't like Russia invading, but I don't believe we should be messing in this. If they were a NATO country, then the gloves are off. ok , ill not argue things i need to research - but - who put russia in charge of straitening things out there ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, watab kid said: ok , ill not argue things i need to research - but - who put russia in charge of straitening things out there ? Putin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 6 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said: Never doubt, if back into a corner, Putin or his replacement, would go Nuclear. Never doubt, if backed into a corner, WE would also go Nuclear. Frankly, Ukraine simply isn't worth it. Let 'em fight their own fight. Win, Lose, or Draw, doesn't matter to us. The Balkans?? Same Same situational analysis. Nobody here remembers, first-hand, how the US backed Japan into a similar corner. Personally, I think Europe should put up the fight, and America should just stay home. It is long overdue for Europe to fight their own battles, and pay their own way. As posted here earlier, Ukraine is a vast wealth of minerals, farm land and manufacturing ability. It is also immediately adjacent to the rest of Russia and its satellites. Putin wants these treasures, and a significant increase in coast line, back under Russian control. Apparently, some 50% of Ukraine citizens want the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Yep. Franklin D. and "others" wanted the US in what became the Second World War. So we put Japan in an untenable position. Deliberately. With Malice of Forethought. It certainly worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 So....the US goaded Japan into a (at the time of attack) an undeclared war because the US would not sell them the necessary materials to wage war. Gee, I guess the US should have continued to sell them iron, oil and all of the other items that they could use to massacre innocent civilians in China and elsewhere. The Japanese put themselves in an untenable position by continuing a war of terror and conquest that they didn't have the material to do it with. Comparing the Russian/Ukraine conflict of today with the Japanese actions in pre WWII and WWII isn't really a comparison. In 1939, there was no internet, satellites, World banking system, jet aircraft, hypersonic weapons...or nukes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted February 28, 2022 Author Share Posted February 28, 2022 11 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said: Putin Putin puttin things straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 History shows an interesting facet: the Japanese expansion in the Pacific was identical to the American expansion in the West. Conquest, genocide of civilians and appropriation of land and assets in both cases. On November 29, 1864, Preacher John Chivington, US Army, attacked and slaughtered Indian women and children at Sand Creek, Colorado. He collected the genitals of the slaughtered and presented them to an audience in a Denver theater. A pile of hacked male genitals brought laughter. Applause greeted soldiers who wore female genital skins stretched across their hats. Teddy Roosevelt not only approved of this action, but applauded saying, "it was on the whole as righteous and beneficial a deed as ever took place on the frontier." Almost the entire American West was ethnically cleansed of Indians in the same manner, by American soldiers acting on government orders. This is remarkably similar to the Japanese atrocities in China, and the South Pacific. As Teddy said, "I don't go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of every ten are, and I shouldn't like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth." America backed the Japanese into a corner by cutting off their access to war materials. Today, we are cutting off the Russian access to money and war materials. I suspect the end result will be the same as it was, the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Ukraine's president just signed up to see if they'll be accepted in the European Union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Just now, Rye Miles #13621 said: Ukraine's president just signed up to see if they'll be accepted in the European Union. There was no chance in 2014 because of the disputed territories, less chance now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 5 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said: Yep. Franklin D. and "others" wanted the US in what became the Second World War. So we put Japan in an untenable position. Deliberately. With Malice of Forethought. It certainly worked. Certainly an untenable position if they wanted to continue to conquer and occupy China, and expand into the countries of the southern Pacific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Comparing all these prior conflicts with what is going on now is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Well Holland ( the Dutch ) have sent some of their Tank-buster Fighter Jets, and from all accounts they doing a Bang-up job. Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 Poland is doing a good job with the refugees. Poland understands Russian invasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cemetery Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 13 hours ago, bgavin said: Today, we are cutting off the Russian access to money and war materials. China can fix that problem. But will they? Guess we'll see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 17 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said: There was no chance in 2014 because of the disputed territories, less chance now. It would take years, I guess it's a lengthy process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 Anyone else notice that scam emails have diminished? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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