Rule Prep for EOT - Common Misunderstood Rules

[Shamrock Sadie]

SASS Rules Reminders …
Getting ready for EOT. Below are some common misunderstood rules the Shooters/TOs/Spotters/PMs should be aware of.
 

SHB v. 26.2 (Jan 1, 2022)
HOLSTERS/BELTS:
p. 2: “Main match holsters must be located one on each side of the belly button and separated by at least the width of two fists at the belt. (Note: Pocket pistol and derringer holsters are not “main match” holsters).”
- Pay attention to the words, “each side of the belly button” (this is the holster at the belt and while shooting):
- Might be good to use something to keep the holsters in place so they do not move while shooting.
p. 3: “Ammunition belts must be worn so all ammo is positioned at or below the belly button.”

 

COWBOY PORT-ARMS
p. 13: “Defined as a standing upright with the butt of the long gun at or below the waist of the shooter, the muzzle at or above the shoulder, and the long gun held with both hands.”

COCKED REVOLVER LEAVING HAND
p. 13: “A cocked revolver may never leave a shooters hand, including from one hand to the other. This does not apply when loading or reloading on the firing line.”
- Note that changing the revolver from one hand to the other means transferring from one hand that is gripping the revolver to the other hand gripping the revolver. So if cocked during the transfer, then the penalty is a SDQ.
- When a cocked revolver is holstered, once the shooter removes their hand from the grip, the appropriate penalty will apply. (Clarification 2017 WR TG mtg.)

 

DECOCKING A FIREARM
p. 14: “No firearm may be decocked on the firing line to avoid a penalty if cocked at the wrong time, position or location once a round has gone downrange. Once a revolver is cocked, the round must be expended (shot). However, if a round has not gone downrange, and under the direction and supervision of the TO, the revolver may be decocked. This requires a positive indication/acknowledgement from the TO for the shooter to do so. (See also “Double Jeopardy” avoidance in Safety & Handling Conventions – All Firearms)”
- Note that if decocked without the direction and supervision of the TO, then the penalty is a SDQ.
- This applies to decocking a revolver at the end of a stage as well, such as when the shooter looses count and the TO says that’s all and the shooter leaves the hammer cocked. By decocking (instead of pulling the trigger safely down range) it’s avoiding a penalty such as holstering a cocked revolver or a cocked revolver leaving the shooter’s hand.

 

MSV and a MISS
If the shooter receives a MSV (and the correct number of rounds has NOT been fired as called for by the stage instructions), then it is also a Miss.

 

CLEARING A LONG GUN AT END OF STAGE
p. 17: “If the long gun is the last firearm used, it must be cleared prior to it leaving the shooters hand(s) at the unloading area.”
- Note that after shooting the long gun, the shooter may release the long gun anywhere on the firing line, but must clear it prior to releasing it at the ULT.

- So you can safely put down your long gun on the shooting line to retrieve other firearms, then pick up that long gun that was used last; just make sure it is clear before you put it down on the ULT.

 

LOADING TABLE:
p. 28: “Competitors shall not leave the designated loading area with a loaded firearm unless they are called to the stage as the next competitor to begin the stage by the Timer Operator or Expeditor.” Penalty is a SDQ.

 

170-180 DEGREE RULES
p. 17: “The 170° rule means the muzzle of a firearm must always be straight down range (+/– 85° in any direction). Muzzle direction and muzzle control is important between, before, during, and after shooting a stage. The 170° rule is the backbone of all safe firearm handling and is always in effect.” p. 3: “Any firearm that breaks the 170° safety rule will result in a Stage Disqualification.”
p. 3: “When drawing a revolver, the muzzle may be oriented into the straight down (180°) as it clears leather; but must then go immediately into the downrange 170° (and vice versa on the return). These restrictions against breaking the downrange 180° angle apply to all holsters and methods of draw/re-holster. This allowance applies to all types/styles of holsters, from canted double strong side to cross draw, to shoulder/Huckleberry rigs.”

LONG GUNS THAT SLIP AND FALL
MSV (Clarification 2020 WR TG mtg.): If shooter discards a long gun after use, and is at complete rest for a very brief moment, then slips and falls without breaking the 170, then a MSV. 
Stage DQ: 1) Long gun is in continuous motion and falls. 2) Shooter bumps a prop and long gun falls.  3) Shooter knocks the long gun and it falls.
Dropped firearm – a firearm that has left the shooter’s control and comes to rest at a location or position other than where it was intended.

RIFLE/SHOTGUN - SAFE FOR MOVEMENT IN HAND

p. 15: “A rifle is considered SAFE for movement (in hand, while moving through a stage) in the following condition only:
- Hammer fully down on an empty chamber or expended round, action closed.
- Action open, round on carrier or in chamber.”

p. 15: “A shotgun is considered SAFE for movement (in hand, while moving through a stage) in the following conditions only:
- Action open, round in chamber or on carrier.
- Hammer(s) fully down on an empty

chamber(s) or expended round(s), action closed.”

STAGING LONG GUNS

p.15: “All long guns initially staged on a horizontal surface shall be staged lying flat where at least the rear of the trigger guard is on the staging area.”

DISCARDED LONG GUN - RETRIEVAL

p. 16: “If the long gun is not discarded empty prior to the next firearm being fired, only the shooter may return to open and/or clear the firearm at the end of the stage under the observation of the TO.”

 

HITTING TARGET WITH THE WRONG FIREARM
p. 21: “Revolver, rifle, and shotgun targets must be engaged with the appropriate type of firearm. A MISS is defined as the failure to hit the appropriate target type using the appropriate type of firearm and includes: … Each target hit with an incorrect firearm – either intentionally or by mistake.”
- So if the shooter hits rifle targets with their pistol(s) or pistol targets with their rifle, then each target hit with the inappropriate firearm is considered a Miss (not a procedural).
- The TO should assist the shooter, if at all possible (without further shooter incurred penalties), to get the shooter on the appropriate target type.

 

SHOOTERS’S CHOICE – REPLACING EJECTED/DEFECTIVE ROUNDS (PaleWolf Brunelle, SASS #2495)
A shooter who ejects a rifle round in the middle of a shooting string has FOUR choices:
1) Re-engage same target; then reload at the end of the string for the last target = No Penalty
2) Re-engage same target w/NO reload = Miss for the ejected (unfired) round
3) Skip to next target w/NO reload = Miss
4) Skip to next target w/reload/return to re-engage skipped target = Procedural

 

One last thing …

June 2017 (EOT TG meeting) Clarification: “Only the Timer Operator and the three (3) spotters are the only ROs (Range Officers) that can give commands to the shooter and if any of those four (4) ROs give the shooter the wrong instructions, then it “could” be grounds for a reshoot.”

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

June 2017 (EOT TG meeting) Clarification: “Only the Timer Operator and the three (3) spotters are the only ROs (Range Officers) that can give commands to the shooter and if any of those four (4) ROs give the shooter the wrong instructions, then it “could” be grounds for a reshoot.”

It's not just common misunderstood rules the Shooters/TOs/Spotters/PMs should be aware of, but also those up higher in the food chain.

 

I argued this point at WR in 2020 up to Red River Wrangler who was the...I don't know the title he was given...head R.O...?? He ruled that only the T.O. can give a bad instruction that would be grounds for a re-shoot. I escalated it to Blackjack Zak and he and other's corrected the call.

 

So...again...it's EVERYONE that needs to be aware of the rules.

 

Phantom

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

Additional viewing on some of these subjects:

 

1 hour ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

DECOCKING A FIREARM

 

 

1 hour ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

MSV and a MISS

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

LOADING TABLE:

 

 

1 hour ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

LONG GUNS THAT SLIP AND FALL

 

 

1 hour ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

RIFLE/SHOTGUN - SAFE FOR MOVEMENT IN HAND

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

STAGING LONG GUNS

 

 

2 hours ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

HITTING TARGET WITH THE WRONG FIREARM

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

SHOOTERS’S CHOICE – REPLACING EJECTED/DEFECTIVE ROUNDS

 

 

2 hours ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

One last thing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[T-Square]

Thanks Branchwater ! Your Channel is the best for SASS.  Hope you move the channel to Rumble & Truth Social soon.

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

My only comment on the ammo being at or below the belly button is:  there are many pictures of shooters in the chronical that violate this rule. Many have the ammo belt bottom edge at or above the so called belly button. I've never seen it called in 20 years of shooting.

[Roscoe Regulator]

21 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

My only comment on the ammo being at or below the belly button is:  there are many pictures of shooters in the chronical that violate this rule. Many have the ammo belt bottom edge at or above the so called belly button. I've never seen it called in 20 years of shooting.

Some have mighty high belly buttons. Maybe a better rule is "the crest of the belly".

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

3 minutes ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

Some have mighty high belly buttons. Maybe a better rule is "the crest of the belly".

For me that would put my belt under my arm pits!

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

5 minutes ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

Some have mighty high belly buttons. Maybe a better rule is "the crest of the belly".

I always wondered why it wasn't something visual from outside...like the elbow or something...

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Probably the most violated rule... Outside of the 180 rule, in SASS.

 

Folks, stop cheating!!! And start self-regulating! Stop with the "well would you like to check where my belly button is?" BS...

 

Phantom

[Roscoe Regulator]

52 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

For me that would put my belt under my arm pits!

Think "below" rather than "above".

[Dusty Devil Dale]

Where does one interview for the job of Belly Button Position  Inspector?  Are there any training classes available?

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

16 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Where does one interview for the job of Belly Button Position  Inspector?  Are there any training classes available?

This is the problem...everyone jokes about it so it just doesn't get enforced.

 

I brought up the issue at a State match once...trust me, it was not taken seriously...got the typical kinda response: You want to go up and stick your finger in his belly button...you wanna be the "Belly Button Position Inspector"?

 

Screw it...let's just throw out all the rules!

 

Phantom

[Diamond Jake]

I have a serious question on the ammo relative to the Belly Button.  Is it the top (Rim) of the round, the bottom, or any part of it?

 

Also, there's the line of the rule that says "Shotgun Ammo loops must conform to the shooter's contour (i.e., not tilt out from the belt)."

 

With many people, myself included, if I wear the belt at or below the belly button, the tops of the shot shells stick out considerable from my belly.  So as long as the belt is constructed that the loops don't stick out from the belt, it's OK if the belt itself tilts out from the body?

[Tucker McNeely]

If you have a problem adhering to “at or below the belly button”, then I suggest a bandolier.

[Big Rock, SASS #44055]

39 minutes ago, Diamond Jake said:

I have a serious question on the ammo relative to the Belly Button.  Is it the top (Rim) of the round, the bottom, or any part of it?

 

Also, there's the line of the rule that says "Shotgun Ammo loops must conform to the shooter's contour (i.e., not tilt out from the belt)."

 

With many people, myself included, if I wear the belt at or below the belly button, the tops of the shot shells stick out considerable from my belly.  So as long as the belt is constructed that the loops don't stick out from the belt, it's OK if the belt itself tilts out from the body?

Which would then follow your contour.  The rule is so the shells are in parallel to the belt, so if the belt lays flat, the shells will also, and not be at an angle away from the belt. When wearing your belt follows your contour, the belt is forced outward, so will the shells.  It would seem to me you would want to wear them low so your belly pushes the tops out.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

This is my "favorite" rule.

Movement is not allowed with a loaded round under the hammer of any firearm. Movement is defined by the basketball “traveling” rule. Whenever a shooter has a loaded round under the hammer of a firearm in hand, at least one foot must remain in place on the ground.
 

I added emphasis to one sentence.  I have always believed that this sentence means that the rule will never be enforced.  

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

1 hour ago, Diamond Jake said:

I have a serious question on the ammo relative to the Belly Button.  Is it the top (Rim) of the round, the bottom, or any part of it?

 

SHB pg 3

Quote

Ammunition belts must be worn so all ammo is positioned at or below the belly button

 

The bellybutton should be at or above the bottom of shells on the belt. 

 

[Missouri Marshal SASS #50682]

7 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Probably the most violated rule... Outside of the 180 rule, in SASS.

 

Folks, stop cheating!!! And start self-regulating! Stop with the "well would you like to check where my belly button is?" BS...

 

Phantom

Please don't assume that because someone is wearing the SG belt above their belly button that they are "Cheating".  Some of us have legitimate reasons for doing so.  I had 18' of my colon removed and now have an ostomy.  The stoma comes out of my belly right next to my belly button.  I can't wear a belt over the ostomy bag.  That could cause a real Sh&&y situation.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

24 minutes ago, Missouri Marshal SASS #50682 said:

Please don't assume that because someone is wearing the SG belt above their belly button that they are "Cheating".  Some of us have legitimate reasons for doing so.  I had 18' of my colon removed and now have an ostomy.  The stoma comes out of my belly right next to my belly button.  I can't wear a belt over the ostomy bag.  That could cause a real Sh&&y situation.

Yer right...I should have said 99.99% of those that wearing the SG Belt above their belly button are cheating...

[Bad Company, SASS #20195]

Change the rule. Wear the dang belt wherever you want to optimize your loading. Stupid rule. Position of the SG belt is self  limiting. Try shooting a match with the belt under your armpits.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

4 minutes ago, Bad Company, SASS #20195 said:

Change the rule. Wear the dang belt wherever you want to optimize your loading. Stupid rule. Position of the SG belt is self  limiting. Try shooting a match with the belt under your armpits.

It's one of a few rules that are cosmetics motivated.

 

Phantom

[Bad Company, SASS #20195]

6 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

It's one of a few rules that are cosmetics motivated.

 

Phantom

Hey Phantom, what does that mean? Cosmetics motivated?

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 minute ago, Bad Company, SASS #20195 said:

Hey Phantom, what does that mean? Cosmetics motivated?

Rules put in place so that participants project a look that is acceptable to the Powers That Be.

 

For instance, the "Default" position was put in place because some folks didn't like the "look" of "us" starting all crouched up and hovering over our guns...said it didn't look "Cowboy". 

 

Phantom

[Bad Company, SASS #20195]

Thanks, I get it.

 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

is wearing a shotgun, or any cartridge best, bandolier style, that is to say over one shoulder and around to the waist on the other side, legal?  Just wondering.

[Big Rock, SASS #44055]

1 hour ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

is wearing a shotgun, or any cartridge best, bandolier style, that is to say over one shoulder and around to the waist on the other side, legal?  Just wondering.

As long as it is not attached or anchored down. It must be worn loose. And yes that is the definition of a bandolier, over one shoulder across to the other side about to your hip. 

[McCandless]

15 hours ago, Bad Company, SASS #20195 said:

Change the rule. Wear the dang belt wherever you want to optimize your loading. Stupid rule. Position of the SG belt is self  limiting. Try shooting a match with the belt under your armpits.

 

The "Shotgun Bra" that was worn by some gentleman shooters, (and can be seen in one of the early Cowboy Chronicles), was the reason for that rule.  The Wild Bunch thought it looked danged silly!  

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

19 minutes ago, McCandless said:

 

The "Shotgun Bra" that was worn by some gentleman shooters, (and can be seen in one of the early Cowboy Chronicles), was the reason for that rule.  The Wild Bunch thought it looked danged silly!  

 

And then there's this (added to the SHB in 2009)

 

Quote

All clothing and equipment must be worn appropriately and how it was intended, or how it would have been in the Old West or as seen on B-Western movies and television.

SHB p.2

 

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

21 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

All clothing and equipment must be worn appropriately and how it was intended, or how it would have been in the Old West or as seen on B-Western movies and television.

Whaaaaaa????

 

So I can't wear my spurs on my elbows????

 

'Merica!

[Shooting Bull]

1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Whaaaaaa????

 

So I can't wear my spurs on my elbows????

 

'Merica!

 

You can but I'll start calling you Dennis Rodman. 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

6 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

You can but I'll start calling you Dennis Rodman. 

If yer going to do that...then I'll have to get a few more tattoos...

 

[Tucker McNeely]

Please do not attempt the wedding dress.

[Dusty Devil Dale]

On 2/27/2022 at 1:03 PM, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

This is the problem...everyone jokes about it so it just doesn't get enforced.

 

I brought up the issue at a State match once...trust me, it was not taken seriously...got the typical kinda response: You want to go up and stick your finger in his belly button...you wanna be the "Belly Button Position Inspector"?

 

Screw it...let's just throw out all the rules!

 

Phantom

Valid point. 

I see a lot of shooters in apparent violation with nobody checking or even asking (and it would be a fool to try to check or ask an armed female shooter to show/verify)

 

I have to say I don't understand why the rule was made in the first place, since loosely worn (and more loosely defined) bandoleers are allowed.    Who really cares where ammunition is carried, as long as everyone is treated the same? 

What was the original logic--anybody? 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

5 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

I have to say I don't understand why the rule was made in the first place, since loosely worn (and more loosely defined) bandoleers are allowed.    Who really cares where ammunition is carried, as long as everyone is treated the same? 

What was the original logic--anybody? 

There's another thread where this is discussed.

 

Couple issues that were addressed.

 

1. Wearing a piece of clothing/equipment/etc in the manner that it was designed to be worn. A Bando, while is above the belly button, is worn as designed. Shotgun belts are just that...belts. Wearing it up right under your pecs is not wearing it as it was designed to be worn.

 

2. Cosmetics was another motivator. The decision makers didn't like the "look" of wearing a SG Belt under one's pecs. I frankly agree with them! This motivation was also the motivation behind the development of the "Default" starting position. We all used to crouch and hover over our guns at the start of a stage. Some folks said it didn't look "Cowboy" so they came up with the Default Starting Position.

 

Phantom

[Snakebite]

Ha! Phantom you are so right.... "Didn't look Cowboy".... as I recall one of the issues concerning the Wearing of clothing the way it was designed to be worn, was brought about by a Young man that was wearing his pants so low that it really bothered (someone). I actually kinda liked the VERY OLD non-written rule that said: If it looked Cowboy, it was Cowboy. This was long before the "Mods Committee". It was accompanied by another non-written rule that said: if Roy, Gene or Hoppy wouldn't do it then you can't do it. The entire rule book was tiny. Yes, it was subjective as HELL, but it worked until a new class of shooter showed up on the field. They were very often wearing Wranglers and looked like they were going to a modern day rodeo. My opinion was that they didn't give a Rats @$$ about playing the game, Winning was all they cared about. Some of them were rejects from other shooting games. They found that in CAS most of the people playing the game were new to shooting competitions and it was much easier to WIN. This was the beginning of the "Arms Race" in CAS, and the beginning of the escalation of the rules to try and control them.   (JMNSHO....... do I sound bitter yet?)

 

Snakebite