Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 When I am at the loading table I am looking at the target engagement by the people that are shooting in front of me and thinking about how I will shoot the stage. When the shooter in front of me is done I pick up my rifle and shotgun and turn and look down the stage. That is often the first time I have looked at something other than the targets. Someone waives at me and says "next shooter." I am moving towards the first shooting position to stage my gun(s) and someone else walks up and says that person was a spotter I am the TO and did not call you so, unfortunately, that is an SDQ. Nothing has been done that is unsafe. I would then go to the unloading table, unload my guns and put them in my cart. I would then push my cart to my car, load up, head to the motel, check out and drive home. No yelling, no screaming, no hissy fit just a realization that with an SDQ the match is over and I might as well go do something more productive with my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Beartrap SASS#57175 said: It is a now required major penalty decreed by the ROC or powers that be for an action that is, in my humble opinion, poorly defined. As I stated in my earlier post does 1 step get me? 2 steps? 3 steps? It is the same issue that others brought up in 2017: Remember that we are treating someone leaving the loading area with loaded guns and wondering up to the stage without being invited no differently than if someone left the loading area with loaded, holstered pistols and went to their cart to fetch some shotgun shells. So, how far would a shooter have to get towards their cart before you would call a penalty in that situation? I would agree that it is ambiguous in both situations, but wasn't there an old line about, "I know it when I see it"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equanimous Phil Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said: Someone waives at me and says "next shooter." I am moving towards the first shooting position to stage my gun(s) and someone else walks up and says that person was a spotter I am the TO and did not call you so, unfortunately, that is an SDQ. On 2/8/2022 at 3:49 PM, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: On 2/8/2022 at 3:00 AM, Totes Magoats said: It’s going to be interesting. A shooter goes to an annual and not familiar with Posse members. A counter yells Next Shooter and the poor guys gets a SDQ not knowing it wasn’t the TO. Stage designs don’t always allow you to see the TO. Totes IMO...That would be an "appealable" call due to the counter/spotter assuming a function specifically assigned to the Timer Operator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singin' Sue 71615 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 35 minutes ago, Beartrap SASS#57175 said: So, what exactly are the channels for changing a "CLARIFICATION"? This wasn't a rule CHANGE that theoretically would have required a TG vote. It is a now required major penalty decreed by the ROC or powers that be for an action that is, in my humble opinion, poorly defined. As I stated in my earlier post does 1 step get me? 2 steps? 3 steps? I have to say to go to your TG to appeal to the ROC. My mind says the penalty is when you step on the line to stage your guns?? That is just my take... Hopefully we can get a clear 'THIS IS WHEN' to give SDQ, in a more direct clarification. I appreciate discussion, I hear what some are saying...I think some are just reaching for anything to be nitpicky...again, that is my take. Hope to see you soon!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 7 minutes ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said: I have to say to go to your TG to appeal to the ROC. My mind says the penalty is when you step on the line to stage your guns?? That is just my take... Hopefully we can get a clear 'THIS IS WHEN' to give SDQ, in a more direct clarification. I appreciate discussion, I hear what some are saying...I think some are just reaching for anything to be nitpicky...again, that is my take. Hope to see you soon!!! He IS a TG OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 42 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: Remember that we are treating someone leaving the LT with loaded guns and wondering up to the stage without being invited no differently than if someone left the LT with loaded, holstered pistols and went to their cart to fetch some shotgun shells. No problem, we have the small long gun stands for an on deck position, most shooters will just rest the butts of the long guns on them. I'll just move those up about 6'-8' from the line. Then when the RO calls I'm already there. I will admit that I have been one of those line creepers, but no more. As my old uncle Fred the truck driver used to say after a few drinks "no matter where you go, there you are" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jefro, SASS#69420 said: No problem, we have the small long gun stands for an on deck position, most shooters will just rest the butts of the long guns on them. I'll just move those up about 6'-8' from the line. Then when the RO calls I'm already there. I will admit that I have been one of those line creepers, but no more. As my old uncle Fred the truck driver used to say after a few drinks "no matter where you go, there you are" And, let me apologize for the above that I wrote. I have gone back and fixed it. The rule clearly identifies, "the designated loading area" and not loading table. That was my mistake in what I wrote that you quoted above. And, I think this is why the ROC is leaving is ambiguous. One club's "designated loading area" may be different than another club's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Ramrod Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said: When I am at the loading table I am looking at the target engagement by the people that are shooting in front of me and thinking about how I will shoot the stage. When the shooter in front of me is done I pick up my rifle and shotgun and turn and look down the stage. That is often the first time I have looked at something other than the targets. Someone waives at me and says "next shooter." I am moving towards the first shooting position to stage my gun(s) and someone else walks up and says that person was a spotter I am the TO and did not call you so, unfortunately, that is an SDQ. Nothing has been done that is unsafe. I would then go to the unloading table, unload my guns and put them in my cart. I would then push my cart to my car, load up, head to the motel, check out and drive home. No yelling, no screaming, no hissy fit just a realization that with an SDQ the match is over and I might as well go do something more productive with my time. I would inform the TO to replace that spotter and instruct the posse on who is allowed to call the shooter to the line, then leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singin' Sue 71615 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 6 hours ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said: Yes...and key is shooter called as setters are walking BACK. Not walking TO set targets. Just my pet peeve. Yes, we need to keep posse moving...but... I might add that at EOT's at FR...as anyone who attended can attest to...the loading tables were a fair distance from the line. Most times the setters were back in place by the time the 'next shooter' arrived. Hope to see you and your bride! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frontier Lone Rider Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 I have always looked at this as a wrestler, you are not allowed on the mat until invited by the referee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beartrap SASS#57175 Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Frontier Lone Rider said: I have always looked at this as a wrestler, you are not allowed on the mat until invited by the referee. The difference is that in this case you get penalized for leaving the dressing room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Just now, Beartrap SASS#57175 said: The difference is that in this case you get penalized for leaving the dressing room. Having to view probably 90% of us, wrapped tight in Spandex, should result in a MDQ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Bill Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 I don't have a problem with the rule, but the penalty seems a little harsh when compared with some other infractions and penalties. Just my two pennies worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Just now, Rebel Bill said: I don't have a problem with the rule, but the penalty seems a little harsh when compared with some other infractions and penalties. Just my two pennies worth. The SDQ penalty is based on the following: Quote Failure to adhere to loading and unloading procedures. SHB p.22 - SDQ Quote - All firearms will remain unloaded except while under the direct observation of a designated person on the firing line or in the designated loading and unloading areas. - Any competitor’s failure to adhere to loading and unloading procedures will result in a penalty of a Stage Disqualification. SHB p.28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe LaFives #5481 Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Okay so here's another question. Suppose you have an Expediter table - Do you wait for the expediter to call you to that table and then wait for the TO to call you to the shooting line? Or do you self expedite to the expedite table and wait for the Expediter to tell you to go to the line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 REF: RO1 p.26 REF: RO2 p.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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