Mild load for 45 Colt

[Fort Reno Kid]

Howdy Pards

 

Bit of background. Our Cowboy group got started in late 1980’s. Back then I shot 38-40, 44-40, 44 Special, and 45 Colt. Had my powder measure set for 8.5 grains of Unique and used that load for all of those cartridges.

 

Then … came advancing years and arthritic hands. That load seemed heavier than necessary. Still rotate among those cartridges but now my powder measure is set for 5 grains of Titegroup. Works well in all of ‘em.

 

Have been contemplating a lighter load in the event the arthritis worsens. Some of our “mature” shooters have switched to 38 Special with light loads but I prefer to stick with my 44’s and 45’s.

 

Between Cowboy matches I practice at an indoor range. Loaded a box of 45 Colt with 4 grains of Unique and the Lee 160 grain cast bullet. That’s pretty close to a 38 Special load.  Used a tight crimp to assist ignition. Had some trepidations about the light load but ignition was fine. Plenty of sturm and drang. Recoil, as you can imagine, was quite mild. Point of impact at cowboy-range distances not too different from the Titegroup load. I suspect that load would work even more efficiently in Schofield brass and particularly in 45 Cowboy Special brass.

 

Haven’t tried it yet in 44 Special and 44 Russian but believe it would work as well or better.

 

For now I’ll stick with my “old faithful” load of 5 grains of Titegroup and 250 grain bullet … BUT … it’s comforting to know a milder recoiling alternative is available should the need for it arise.

 

This might also be a good starting load for a new shooter. As confidence rose, the shooter could transition to a more traditional cowboy load.

 

Thot I’d share this experiment with the group in the hope it might provide perspective.

 

Adios

 

Fort Reno Kid 

[Rip Snorter]

Perception of recoil is pretty subjective, and I prefer to keep loads close to real world, but I just ran off a batch of 45 Colt based on the Cowboy loads in the old Laser-Cast Manual.  250gr. Bayou Bullet, 6.5 gr 231.  Pleasant to shoot and accurate enough for SASS.  Will be shooting more formally than plinking at little rocks on a cutbank when weather improves.

[Yul Lose]

4.0 grains of Red Dot and a 200 grain coated bullet is what I use for.45 Colt.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

I run 6.5 gn of Unique in my 44's, with a 200gn moly coated RNFP.

OLG 

[Diamond Jake]

That 8.5 gr load of Unique is a heavier load than I use in my 45Colt deer hunting loads.

 

For CAS I use 200 gr bullets and around 4.5g of TiteGroup or Clean Shot in my rifle, and about the same but 45 Schofield brass in my revolvers.  (This from memory; I don't have my load data in front of me right now.)  I haven't tried a 160g bullet yet but I bet it's really mild.

[Caladisi kid]

My 2 bits,

45 colt Starline case, 4.5 grains of Trail Boss, any large primer, 180 grain Meister lead bullet, chrono's 550-625 depending on temp.  Use this in rifle and pistol, no problems.

[ShadowCatcher]

When I was shooting Rugers I loaded a 250 LRNFP over 4.5 gr TrailBoss for a chronographed 600 f/s.

When I switched to Colts I found lead 250 gr LRNFP sized to .454 over 6.7 Unique gave me 730 f/s and nice groups.

 

 

[Matthew Duncan]

4 hours ago, Fort Reno Kid said:

...For now I’ll stick with my “old faithful” load of 5 grains of Titegroup and 250 grain bullet … BUT …

 

Fort Reno Kid 

Try switching the 250 grain bullet to 200.  Son shot ten stages in one day.  My normal load with 250s about killed his wrist.  Switched to 200 and he’s happy, noticeable less recoil.

[Sarge]

I have the same arthritis problem.  I shoot C.45 Spl with 160 grn bullet in front of 3.5 gr Trail Boss.  Felt recoil is non-existent.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Uh, Ahem, None of the Above ?? 

 

For 45 Colt, might I suggest 12 - 13Gr 3F APP??  160Gr RNFP, fill the open space with a little Cream-0-Wheat.  

 

I use exactly the same load in 45 Schofield cases.  Little less Cream-0-Wheat

 

I use exactly the same load in Cowboy 45 Special cases.  No Cream-0-Wheat

 

I use exactly the same load in Cowboy 45 Special cases with 130Gr BARNSTORMER bullets.  Barnstormers by Shootin Fox.

 

I use exactly the same load in 44 Special cases.  Some Cream-0-Wheat

 

I use exactly the same load in 44 Russian cases.  Not much if any Cream-0-Wheat

 

Now if I could just get a nice new .430 120 or 125Gr BARNSTORMER for .44 Spl/Russ.

 

It may be noted, there is a certain repetition of the load data.  Really easy to remember.  

[Sarge]

12 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

Uh, Ahem, None of the Above ?? 

 

For 45 Colt, might I suggest 12 - 13Gr 3F APP??  160Gr RNFP, fill the open space with a little Cream-0-Wheat.  

 

I use exactly the same load in 45 Schofield cases.  Little less Cream-0-Wheat

 

I use exactly the same load in Cowboy 45 Special cases.  No Cream-0-Wheat

 

I use exactly the same load in Cowboy 45 Special cases with 130Gr BARNSTORMER bullets.  Barnstormers by Shootin Fox.

 

I use exactly the same load in 44 Special cases.  Some Cream-0-Wheat

 

I use exactly the same load in 44 Russian cases.  Not much if any Cream-0-Wheat

 

Now if I could just get a nice new .430 120 or 125Gr BARNSTORMER for .44 Spl/Russ.

 

It may be noted, there is a certain repetition of the load data.  Really easy to remember.  

Just wondering how much Nabisco stock you hold;)

[Last Call Saul]

200 gr bullet on top of 6gr of HP-38/W231 here.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Sarge 

 

Not enough actually.  A box of Cream-0-Wheat goes a LOOOOOOONG way.  Since it doesn't compress, and meters really well, it's a perfect filler.

[Roscoe Regulator]

Some of the loads are nuts compared to loads in the Lyman cast book. For example, 4 grains of Unique with a 160 gr bullet is more than 50% lower than the minimum at 8700 psi (8.9 grains). Velocity though is nearly 900 fps, rated with a 7 1/2" barrel. Say this reduced load would make 500 fps, the power factor would be (160 x 500)/1000=80, so it's good there (minimum 60). That assumes velocity is not even less than 500.

 

It has been reported that some can actually see a bullet going down range, given the bunny farts some use.

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

My light load is 34gr. Goex 3F under a 181gr. bullet in .38-40 .... Very pleasant to shoot and brings a Mile wide Smile to my Face ... 

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Speaking of light loads.  Some Lustrum ago, the Sun was at just the right angle to the bullet line of flight.  There were a couple of shooters whose bullets you could see to the target.  I thought it kind of Humorous.

 

I still shoot with a couple of folks at this point in time, who shoot ammunition right on the edge of Squib and who suffer an occasional squib.  Silly, actually. 

[Griff]

I shoot 45 Colt; almost exclusively... except in my pistols with smokeless.  In the rifle it's 6 grains of Red Dot under a 200 grain RFN.  In my SAAs it's 3.4 grains behind a 160 grain RFN in a Cowboy45Special case..

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

In .44 Spcl and .45 Colt, I like Hodgdon's minimum of Clays.  My .45 Colt pistol round is 4.6gr Clays with a 200gr bullet.  It is very mild, the brass stays quite clean and falls out of the cylinders.  I have been happy with it, but recently won 500 160gr bullets and figured I would load them in Schofield brass for the pistol.  Couldn't find any data for that light of a bullet in the Schofield, so was asking here on the Wire for loads.  Two Spurs loaned me 5 rounds of 160gr Schofield ammo loaded with 4.0gr Clays to try out.  I shot them on one stage, and really could tell very little difference between them and the 45 Colt.  So I will probably try an even lighter powder charge when I get around to loading the Schofields.

 

I can't shoot the 45's quite as fast as my .38's (with moderate loads), but almost.  You can see by the muzzle flip that the loads are light but do have a bit of recoil (45's in pistols only):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRporz6hBm4

 

 

 

[ShadowCatcher]

10 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Speaking of light loads.  Some Lustrum ago, the Sun was at just the right angle to the bullet line of flight.  There were a couple of shooters whose bullets you could see to the target.  I thought it kind of Humorous.

 

I still shoot with a couple of folks at this point in time, who shoot ammunition right on the edge of Squib and who suffer an occasional squib.  Silly, actually. 

I've had that happen shooting factory .45 ACp 230 ball.

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

On 2/4/2022 at 10:28 AM, Fort Reno Kid said:

Howdy Pards

 

Bit of background. Our Cowboy group got started in late 1980’s. Back then I shot 38-40, 44-40, 44 Special, and 45 Colt. Had my powder measure set for 8.5 grains of Unique and used that load for all of those cartridges.

 

Then … came advancing years and arthritic hands. That load seemed heavier than necessary. Still rotate among those cartridges but now my powder measure is set for 5 grains of Titegroup. Works well in all of ‘em.

 

Have been contemplating a lighter load in the event the arthritis worsens. Some of our “mature” shooters have switched to 38 Special with light loads but I prefer to stick with my 44’s and 45’s.

 

Between Cowboy matches I practice at an indoor range. Loaded a box of 45 Colt with 4 grains of Unique and the Lee 160 grain cast bullet. That’s pretty close to a 38 Special load.  Used a tight crimp to assist ignition. Had some trepidations about the light load but ignition was fine. Plenty of sturm and drang. Recoil, as you can imagine, was quite mild. Point of impact at cowboy-range distances not too different from the Titegroup load. I suspect that load would work even more efficiently in Schofield brass and particularly in 45 Cowboy Special brass.

 

Haven’t tried it yet in 44 Special and 44 Russian but believe it would work as well or better.

 

For now I’ll stick with my “old faithful” load of 5 grains of Titegroup and 250 grain bullet … BUT … it’s comforting to know a milder recoiling alternative is available should the need for it arise.

 

This might also be a good starting load for a new shooter. As confidence rose, the shooter could transition to a more traditional cowboy load.

 

Thot I’d share this experiment with the group in the hope it might provide perspective.

 

Adios

 

Fort Reno Kid 

Try a 200 grain bullet with that same load of Tite-Group. Much less recoil with a 200 grainer.

[Cemetery]

For really mild loads, you could switch to Cowboy 45 Special

[Roscoe Regulator]

2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Try a 200 grain bullet with that same load of Tite-Group. Much less recoil with a 200 grainer.

"Same load" meaning "8.5 grains" of TiteGroup instead of Unique would be well over Hodgdon's max for 200 grain 45 Colt (7.7 gr). 5.0 gr is their Cowboy load at 731 fps.

[Rye Miles #13621]

20 minutes ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

"Same load" meaning "8.5 grains" of TiteGroup instead of Unique would be well over Hodgdon's max for 200 grain 45 Colt (7.7 gr). 5.0 gr is their Cowboy load at 731 fps.

No I meant what he said about having his measure set at his "Old Faithful" recipe at 5.0 grains of Tite-Group with a 250 gr bullet, I said try a 200 grain bullet!

[Eyesa Horg]

I'm using 5.2 gr. of Clays under a 200 gr. RNFP for 45 colt

4.2 gr. Clays under a 160 gr. RNFP for Cowboy 45 Special

[Roscoe Regulator]

3 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

No I meant what he said about having his measure set at his "Old Faithful" recipe at 5.0 grains of Tite-Group with a 250 gr bullet, I said try a 200 grain bullet!

Looks good. I did some calcs and find the power factor with 5.0 grains of TiteGroup and a 200 gr bullet, down from 250,  is reduced from 179 to 146 with only a 2% rise in velocity yet a 65% drop in pressure. That is based upon Hodgdon data.

[Shifty Bob]

I am starting out with 45 colt in a new rifle . is there a "general" load that is a common one. Then I can fine tune. ( dont own any other guns in 45 colt.)

 

Powders I have are: Titegroup, Unique, W231, Clays, Bullseye and Trail boss

 

Is 200 grain a "generally" common weight for a cast bullet

 

I realize this is a personal taste thing but a good starting load would be appreciated.

[DeaconKC]

2 hours ago, Shifty Bob said:

I am starting out with 45 colt in a new rifle . is there a "general" load that is a common one. Then I can fine tune. ( dont own any other guns in 45 colt.)

 

Powders I have are: Titegroup, Unique, W231, Clays, Bullseye and Trail boss

 

Is 200 grain a "generally" common weight for a cast bullet

 

I realize this is a personal taste thing but a good starting load would be appreciated.

With 250 grain bullets, I run 8.5 grains of Unique.

[Shifty Bob]

19 minutes ago, DeaconKC said:

With 250 grain bullets, I run 8.5 grains of Unique.

Is 250 the popular weight?

 

[DeaconKC]

16 minutes ago, Shifty Bob said:

Is 250 the popular weight?

 

I like the traditional weight, many [most?] shoot lighter stuff.

[Rip Snorter]

I have always used loads (within the rules) for all the shooting sports I've participated that would be adequate in a real world situation. I'm sure I could have placed a little higher from time to time, but I'm in it for fun...and practice.

[watab kid]

9 hours ago, Shifty Bob said:

I am starting out with 45 colt in a new rifle . is there a "general" load that is a common one. Then I can fine tune. ( dont own any other guns in 45 colt.)

 

Powders I have are: Titegroup, Unique, W231, Clays, Bullseye and Trail boss

 

Is 200 grain a "generally" common weight for a cast bullet

 

I realize this is a personal taste thing but a good starting load would be appreciated.

if you read through this thread you would get loads for every powder you listed as well as the popular bullet weights , even a little of the variacles in the charges some use - everything you asked is answered above ,  

[Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580]

And that having been said, I'll toss my two bits worth into the hat. My arthritis doesn't have too much issue with 3.8 grains of Clays under a 160 or 170 grain bullet in Cowboy .45 Special cases. I also shoot Old Model Vaquero Bisleys one handed 'cause I shoot Classic Cowboy.

[Fort Reno Kid]

Howdy Pards

 

Pleased to see so many posts.  Lot of load data utilizing different powders and bullet weights for consideration.

 

Believe one of the prime benefits of mild 45 loads is being able to continue using 45 (and 44) handguns without having to go to 38 Special.  Not a big concern for you younger Pards but worthy of consideration as age and arthritis make their ugly appearance.

 

Adios

 

Fort Reno Kid 

[watab kid]

ill second that - i have both depending on my state of mind and physical stamina at the time of any given shoot , i no longer take for granted that im in shape to do what i have always taken for granted in the past , i love my 45s and will shoot them long as i can but i have learned in recent years im no longer always able to do what i could 20 years ago or even 10 years ago , age creeps up on you slowly then pounces , not a pleasant thing , 

 

that said im still loading as i always did and so far i can still stick with my big guns most of the time , im shooting a marlin for 38s and i prefer the 66 i shoot in 45s but  the rifle is not always the determining factor when your hands refuse to help , i wont give up but i am having to make concessions once in a while - when yall have to deal with arthritis you will understand - mine is compounded with reynolds that ive had for a long time but seems to be getting worse as i age , used to just be a short thing when i grabbed something cold , but now its a constant irritant i cant seem to predict , very frequent and really irritating - almost constant this time of year unless im in a very warm area ............may need to move south , 

 

 

[Possum Stu]

My standard CAS load is a 200 grain RNFP over 5.5 grains of Trail Boss, with Federal Magnum primers. It's worked for me so far.