Zelle Method of payment

[thespaniard]

Does people use Zelle when they are selling gun here.

USPS takes eons to deliver checks nowadays and the ole school way of sending gold is totally disrupted with delivery delays.

 

Just a food for thought I just bought a pair of gun from a pard here and we should have done Zelle in the first place

 

[Make Your Mark]

Once my daughter told me to use it and how simple it is if your bank and my bank both have it. Most banks do now. I think it is safe as we never see any account info from each other.

[Gambler Rob]

I agree.  Fast,  easy, safe and free!

[El Catorce]

Problem is that many have been scammed using “modern” methods of peer to peer transactions. I’ve used PayPal for small purchase and/or trusted sellers and buyers but many feel more comfortable with, and I think safest way for all involved, a uspo money order that is completely filled out…at least for bigger purchases. 

 

it leaves a paper trail and some recourse in the event of fraud. While fraud is less likely when you deal with bonafide SASS members,  some scoundrels might get past us. 

[McCandless]

16 minutes ago, thespaniard said:

Does people use Zelle when they are selling gun here.

USPS takes eons to deliver checks nowadays and the ole school way of sending gold is totally disrupted with delivery delays.

 

Just a food for thought I just bought a pair of gun from a pard here and we should have done Zelle in the first place

 

 

It's fine to use with parties you trust.  Don't use it for these pop-up ammo/primer sellers that are popping up online.  If an internet ammo store won't take a Credit Card, pass them by.

 

[Make Your Mark]

There is absolutely a trail and if there is a problem you know it in just a couple minutes rather than some time after the mail should have been delivered it. USPS money orders get lost and have been cashed by the wrong person.

[Sedalia Dave]

Zelle is what financial instutions developed to counter Venmo, Apple Pay, and Google pay. Venmo has excellent security to prevent hacking. HOWEVER, it is the same as handing someone cash. Once it is sent it CANNOT be recalled or recovered.

 

Only use it with someone you trust.

 

BTW if your read their terms of service Zelle as well as Venmo, Apple Pay, Gogle Pay, and PayPay prohibit using their services for firearms or firearm related purchases. Yes I know people do it all the time with no issues but doing so violates their terms of service.

[Cholla]

Using Zelle to purchase a firearm violates their terms of use. 

 

https://www.zellepay.com/legal/user-service-agreement

 

You agree that you will not use the Service to request, send or receive money related to any of the following:

• Pharmaceuticals and other controlled substances;
• Illegal drugs;
• Drug paraphernalia;
• Firearms, ammunition or other weapons;
• Sexually oriented activities or materials;
• Pornography;
• Obscene or offensive activities or materials;
• Materials or activities that promote intolerance, violence or hate;
• Ponzi or pyramid schemes;
• Illegal gambling, gaming, lotteries or sweepstakes;
• Court-ordered alimony or child support payments;
• Traveler’s checks, money orders, equities, annuities, or currencies, including digital currencies, such as bitcoins;
• Counterfeit materials;
• Infringement on the copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret or other intellectual property rights of Zelle^®, a Network Financial Institution, another User or any other third party;
• Terrorist funding;
• Fraud;
• Scams;
• Money laundering; or
• Any other illegal activity or unlawful purpose.

[The Yankee Bandit, SASS #59258]

Here’s how I understand the new situation and please correct me if I’m wrong:

Most, if not all payment apps (and I assume Zelle is included) will now be reporting any yearly transactions of more than $600 to the IRS. Individuals will have to report this as income, unless you can prove you sold at a loss. What kind of extra paper work and inconvenience this creates at tax time, I don’t know. I believe transactions made through “family and friends” are exempt from being reported. 
Sounds like a headache I wouldn’t care to deal with. 
And if you buy a firearm and violate their terms of service, there goes your fraud protection and say goodbye to your account. 

[Still hand Bill]

You will simply get a 1099 at the end of the year.  That means it’s income reported to the irs and you will have to pay your normal tax rate on it.  This will cool internet transactions in 23 when people realize that they are paying 20-30% of what they got to taxes.    I expect it will cripple eBay, PayPal, Venmo, etc long term as people won’t realize the change until they get that 1099 and have to pay taxes long after they spent the $$. 
 

the only way around it is to have a business and then you can deduct the costs from the income and only pay tax on the profits.  

[portugeejn]

Interesting. So this means that if you purchased an item with money that you already paid taxes on, then sell it later, then you can pay taxes on the money again!  Great work if you can get it.. 

[Uncle Ethan # 94321]

Zelle is probably OK but some of the people using using it aren't. I would still be very careful. We aren't going to buy primers for $35/1000 anytime soon.

[JohnWesleyHardin]

There is nothing wrong with Zelle per se, but it doesn't have the same protections against fraud as other methods of payment and is the preferred method of payment for scamers.  If you see a seller that only accepts Zelle, usually it is a scam.

[Mezcal Charlie]

2 hours ago, portugeejn said:

Interesting. So this means that if you purchased an item with money that you already paid taxes on, then sell it later, then you can pay taxes on the money again!  Great work if you can get it.. 

Not exactly. If you’re selling guns you own you have have a cost basis and usually there isn't a profit. I sold a lot of guns before, moving downsizing etc.and I don’t pay taxes. The 1099 shows only that you sold for “x” not what you made in those transactions. It’s mainly targeting gun sellers not meeting the legal requirements. 

[Blackwater 53393]

I now deal only with postal money orders or cash unless I know the other party really well!!

 

 I withdraw money from my bank in person if it’s over $300.00 and I pay cash at the post office for anything of greater value.

 

 I try to do business face to face. I pay income and sales taxes and I figure the government is entitled to take taxes from my money only once as it passes through my hands!

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Zelle is often described as handing cash to the other person by using electronic media. 

 

No refunds.

No fraud protection.

No proof of identity of the receiver.

Only a small amount of a receipt or proof of payment.

No third party involved in the transaction that acts as a broker to ensure things are legal and proper.

 

All that adds up to - I would only EVER consider using it if I knew the receiver personally and I could reach out and touch them any time in the near future.

 

So, to answer the OP's question, there's very few SASS members that I would consider doing a transaction via Zelle.   I'd hand deliver to those pards the cash instead, most likely.  And no Z transactions with non-members.

 

good luck, GJ

[Dirty Dog Doug]

my renters told me I was going to get paid from zella

it took me a few days to get it seet up but now they pay one the first  not check mailed on the first 

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

4 hours ago, El Catorce said:

Problem is that many have been scammed using “modern” methods of peer to peer transactions. I’ve used PayPal for small purchase and/or trusted sellers and buyers but many feel more comfortable with, and I think safest way for all involved, a uspo money order that is completely filled out…at least for bigger purchases. 

 

it leaves a paper trail and some recourse in the event of fraud. While fraud is less likely when you deal with bonafide SASS members,  some scoundrels might get past us. 

Don’t expect any help from a USPS Money Order. I ordered $400 worth of bullets several year’s ago with a USPS Money Order and never received them. I went to the Post Office to report it and they told me for $12 they would give me a copy of who signed it so if I took them to court I could use it. I still like them if I’m selling something but don’t count on any protection from a USPS Money Order if you are buying anything!

 

 Randy 

[El Catorce]

9 minutes ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

Don’t expect any help from a USPS Money Order. I ordered $400 worth of bullets several year’s ago with a USPS Money Order and never received them. I went to the Post Office to report it and they told me for $12 they would give me a copy of who signed it so if I took them to court I could use it. I still like them if I’m selling something but don’t count on any protection from a USPS Money Order if you are buying anything!

 

 Randy 

Agreed … but that $12 sig is a start. One of my pards in my club used peer to peer for a supposedly $1,300.00 pair of Vaquero’s…   Law enforcement has zero to go by 

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

2 minutes ago, El Catorce said:

Agreed … but that $12 sig is a start. One of my pards in my club used peer to peer for a supposedly $1,300.00 pair of Vaquero’s…   Law enforcement has zero to go by 

Agreed but it’s not very feasible to drive 3 states away to sue someone for $400 in small claims court.  I just don’t want people to think (like I did) that you’ll get much help from the USPS.

 

Randy

[portugeejn]

1 hour ago, Mezcal Charlie said:

Not exactly. If you’re selling guns you own you have have a cost basis and usually there isn't a profit. I sold a lot of guns before, moving downsizing etc.and I don’t pay taxes. The 1099 shows only that you sold for “x” not what you made in those transactions. It’s mainly targeting gun sellers not meeting the legal requirements. 

I was not thinking of firearms specifically when I wrote about the double taxation, as you are correct-there usually is a cost basis for firearms that you can produce to prove profit or loss.  I was thinking more of all the various gadgets, trinkets, and collectables that I've collected over the years that I need to sell now that I am in at a downsizing age.  I don't have a cost basis for most of those things.  So if I sell more than $600 worth, I get the privilege of paying taxes on the sale of them, even though the money I used to purchase them originally was already taxed.  (holsters, military collectibles, reloading equipment, scopes, mounts, spare parts, knives, archery items, bows, etc.)

[Blackwater 53393]

I had a recent episode where a Postal Money Order was used for payment and was lost.  It takes sixty days, but if it doesn’t show up, they refund or replace it.  If it’s cashed, you file the paperwork and receive a copy of the signature.

 

In my case, it was cashed at a bank and the postal service forced the bank to refund the money because the person who redeemed the money order failed to verify the culprit’s ID.

 

Took a little while, but I got my money back. I have no idea what happened on the other end.

 

 I sent a second PMO and received my purchase in short order.

[Mezcal Charlie]

31 minutes ago, portugeejn said:

I was not thinking of firearms specifically when I wrote about the double taxation, as you are correct-there usually is a cost basis for firearms that you can produce to prove profit or loss.  I was thinking more of all the various gadgets, trinkets, and collectables that I've collected over the years that I need to sell now that I am in at a downsizing age.  I don't have a cost basis for most of those things.  So if I sell more than $600 worth, I get the privilege of paying taxes on the sale of them, even though the money I used to purchase them originally was already taxed.  (holsters, military collectibles, reloading equipment, scopes, mounts, spare parts, knives, archery items, bows, etc.)

Talk to your accountant, mine said that nobody is going looking this kind of income. Just keep books, notes really on what you sell. If you sell at garage sale prices like less than it was worth new I would think you’re safe. If your nick knacks are Remington bronzes or Tiffany lamps then you probably will profit and owe taxes. But the IRS is way understaffed and have real tax criminals to chase.