DeaconKC Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Okay folks, I could use some help on this. I picked up a VERY sad little .38 S&W Double Action and am working on cleaning up the poor little mud puppy. I am going to start with very light loads but cannot find any cast bullets with the proper diameter and even Lee doesn't make a mold for this. Do any of you know of a decent commercial cast bullet that will work in this? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I'm sure you can find some but until then, an old alternative was to use 38 Special hollow based wad-cutters. That's if you find those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Creek,5759 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I think Missouri Bullet Company has them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Bullets can be bought. This is just one source. The round is .38 S&W which is different from other .38 S&W cartridges such as magnum and special. https://missouribullet.com/results.php?category=20&secondary=29https://missouribullet.com/results.php?category=20&secondary=29 Do you have the appropriate cases and dies for the round? How old is that gun? It appears to be a 4th model made in the late 1890s. They made them up to 1909. Do NOT shoot smokeless powder under any circumstances. Some think a light load is acceptable, it is not. BP only. Many of these old pocket guns have been beat to death with smokeless loads anyway. I wouldn't consider it safe to shoot unless you know about them or it's examined by a competent 'smith. Even it's in good working order, I repeat, NO smokeless powder as the metallurgy of the era doesn't play well the pressure spike smokeless produces. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconKC Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 @Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Yup, I am planning on using BP due to it's age. And already have the dies for it. The gun is remarkably tight and good mechanically. Also, it seems that S&W has stated these are okay for factory smokeless loads, but I am leery of that due to it's age and the neglect it has suffered. Finding the proper diameter bullet is the challenge right now. Thanks guys for the lead to Missouri Bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Like you, I'd be very leery of that. Literature I have says 4th model and older should be considered BP only, with 5th model and above ok. Have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconKC Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said: Like you, I'd be very leery of that. Literature I have says 4th model and older should be considered BP only, with 5th model and above ok. Have fun! Thanks, I plan on using it for side matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Please tell us more about the 1903 Browning/FN/Colt(?) in the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caladisi kid Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 29 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said: How old is that gun? It appears to be a 4th model made in the late 1890s. They made them up to 1909. Do NOT shoot smokeless powder under any circumstances. Some think a light load is acceptable, it is not. BP only. Many of these old pocket guns have been beat to death with smokeless loads anyway. I wouldn't consider it safe to shoot unless you know about them or it's examined by a competent 'smith. Even it's in good working order, I repeat, NO smokeless powder as the metallurgy of the era doesn't play well the pressure spike smokeless produces. This, ^^^^^^ Black Powder only please!!! I have one and found an old stock of hollow base wadcutters that work great. Get the correct dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconKC Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 9 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said: Please tell us more about the 1903 Browning/FN/Colt(?) in the background. 1917 built 1903, .32ACP of course. Strictly shooter grade but loads of fun. 9 minutes ago, Caladisi kid said: This, ^^^^^^ Black Powder only please!!! I have one and found an old stock of hollow base wadcutters that work great. Get the correct dies. Yup, got some actual .38 S&W dies in a trade a while back and just held on to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Dead Ed Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Bailey Creek,5759 said: I think Missouri Bullet Company has them. ^^^^THIS^^^^. Just bought some 146 GRN RN .361 dia lead from them for my Iver Johnson second model. also black powder only in your old gal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 I usually get my .360" bullets from betterbullets.com, which is affiliated with King Shooters Supply in Pennsylvania. The Better Bullets website seems to be down, but https://www.kingshooters.com/ is working. I'd give them a call and ask. I have also used .358" round nose hollow points from Buffalo Arms, but they are a but pricey. I just checked Missouri Bullets, and they do have a .361" bullet for .38 S&W. It's on this list and priced well.https://www.missouribullet.com/pricing.php .38 S&W is a great cartridge. There are so many guns for it from old timey pocket pistols to full size main match type guns to WWII era revolvers that are chambered for what amounts to a souped up version of the cartridge. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 You can buy a Mould from Accuratemolds.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Haller Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 When I had a pocket pistol, I had some success finding old smokeless powder 38 S&W rounds. I pulled them apart, dumped the smokeless powder, then reloaded them with Goex, reusing the cases, primers and bullets. (I scrapped off the smokeless lube and added a touch of spg lube to the bullets also.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 as much as i love these old revolvers - please be sure it indexes correctly before you pull the trigger , my father cautioned me when he gave me an old IJ back in the day [very early 60s] that it had issues indexing correctly and a sliver of bullet might escape the barrel at the muzzle of the cylinder , ive always remembered his cation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Fingers, SASS#56813 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 I would try bullets for 38/357 .358 and see if they work first. I have always used 100 grain SNS to load for my 38 S&W. At side match distances it won’t make any difference. LF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Long Fingers, SASS#56813 said: I would try bullets for 38/357 .358 and see if they work first. I have always used 100 grain SNS to load for my 38 S&W. At side match distances it won’t make any difference. LF. Undersize bullets will shorten the life of the brass and cause barrel leading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 I use 105 grn 38/357 bullets in mine, with APP. At PP distances accuracy is not an issue. The Bullet may rattle a bit going down the tube, but doesn’t hurt anything. I’ve never noticed any big leading problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Catorce Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Coated bullets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Duelist1954 just made a YouTube video on the 38s. Just more informatin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Howdy From your photo, I cannot tell if your 38DA is a Third Model or a Fourth Model. The Serial Number should help. Third Model Serial Numbers ran from 119001 to 322700, manufactured from 1884 through 1895. Fourth Model Serial Numbers ran from 322701 to 539000, manufactured from 1895 through 1909. Definitely not a Fifth Model because that model had the front sight forged integral to the barrel, rather than being pinned in place. This is a 3rd Model. It shipped in 1888. This is a 4th Model. It shipped in 1898. Not a 1st or 2nd Model, they had vertical grooves on the cylinder. 20 hours ago, DeaconKC said: Also, it seems that S&W has stated these are okay for factory smokeless loads..... No idea where you may have heard that. I have looked extensively for information documenting when S&W stated their revolvers were safe to shoot with Smokeless Powder. I have found nothing definitive on the matter. I do have reprints of the 1900 S&W catalog, as well as a few from slightly later. The 1900 catalog specifically states S&W revolvers are not guaranteed for Smokeless Powder. The 1905-1906 catalog is not quite as strident, advising the shooter to get specific information about the specific powder. Colt did not factory guarantee the Single Action Army for Smokeless Powder until 1900. I cannot imagine that S&W, only about 30 miles up the Connecticut River from Colt would have had access to steel that was any better than what Colt was using. Anyway. I certainly do not suggest shooting an old Smith like that with Smokeless Powder. I almost always load my Black Powder cartridges with bullets that are specifically lubed for Black Powder, carrying lots of BP compatible soft, gooey bullet lube. The one exception is 38 S&W. A number of years ago l got lazy and loaded up some 38S&W with American Pioneer Powder (APP) because it does not require soft BP compatible bullet lube. I used 100 grain .359 bullets from Hunters Supply Cast Bullets. A little bit smaller than the usual .360, but they worked fine. My reloading notebook says I used approximately 7.3 grains of FFFg APP. I'm pretty sure the bullet was seated directly on the powder without any compression. If there was compression, it was very slight. Clearly a very light load. 38 S&W usually uses a bullet more like 145 grains or so. I would not hesitate to fire these loads in any of my old 38 S&W revolvers, as long as they were in good mechanical condition. These bullets are listed on the Hunters Supply Cast Bullets website: https://hunters-supply.com/357-cal-100-p-233.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Slim SASS #24733 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 If you cast you could always buy this mould. Made especially for the 38 S&W pocket pistols and BP. Mine drops bullets at .361. http://www.biglube.com/BulletMolds.aspx?ItemID=ebcdc217-f282-40a1-92ba-ca09fa487426 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconKC Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 @Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Thank You! I was planning on BP anyway, but good to know that info from their catalog. It's a 4th Model by the SN. ANd thanks for the other info on bullets and APP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamus McGillicuddy Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Bear Creek bullets lists a .38 S&W round. Coated bullets. Seamus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 I've used .358 diameter for my 38 S&W pocket pistols for years. 105 grain coated bullets from CheyCast. Same ones I use in my main match guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Creek,5759 Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 Look at Cartridges of the World, they have loads for all the Cartridges. Modern and old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Jim Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 I got my cast lead bullets for my .38S&W from Springfield Slim. I load with BP and after loading, I dip the business end of the cartridge in lube and store for use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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