Shooting Western Action two handed with pistols?

[Equanimous Phil]

11 hours ago, Quiet Burp said:

We dress up the part of looking like a cowboy to emulate our Western hero's like The Duke, Clint Eastward and all the other Western greats we saw on the silver screen and NONE of them used two hands. 

 

Well they also hit ropes shooting one handed from the hip... 

 

And please consider this: The only category that emphasizes at least somewhat such Western style correctnes is Classic Cowboy which requires one handed shooting. 

[Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667]

The general public has no shortage of misconceptions about the Old West or about our game.  

[KingSnake]

Currently watching Geronimo An American Legend. Just saw Al Sieber shooting the scalp hunters using two hands on his revolver. 

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

7 minutes ago, KingSnake said:

Currently watching Geronimo An American Legend. Just saw Al Sieber shooting the scalp hunters using two hands on his revolver. 

 

SASS style rapidly cocking with the weak hand thumb?

[Anvil Al #59168]

I just want to know if Bisley Joe is back?

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

9 hours ago, Quiet Burp said:

 

Doesn't matter to me either, I just asked the question out of interest how did two handed cowboy shooting with a sixgun come about.

 

The general public are surprised when they see people dressed in cowboy garb shooting sixguns using two hands. Heck, I did a simple search on the Wire and there's a ton of threads where us CAS cowpokes have started threads that they were surprised!

 

I can't answer for anyone else, but when I was shooting my Roy Rogers cap gun as a kid, I sure wasn't (nor any of the other boys) shootin' two handed style so you can see how it does bewilder folks a touch when they see dressed up cowboys shooting 'tacticool' style.

 

 

Nice pictures!

 

 Randy 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

Wild Bill vs. Dave Tutt

[Hashknife Cowboy]

It takes quite a bit of practice to shoot with one hand.  Ask any one handed shooter and they will tell you that they are more accurate with two hands.  Shooting with one hand is a tremendous skill to have, coming from law enforcement we always trained with one hand, both the strong and weak hand,  This was because in the event of a injury to a hand you could remain in the fight.  But this is not gun fighting, it is a sport that is designed to create fun and friendly competition.  I do carry while on horse back  in the woods, should someone  have the need to shoot off of a horse you better have a solid hold of the reins and better be accomplished with one handed shooting.  Choose what you like, I choose to shoot one handed in CAS because I enjoy it.  When hunting with a handgun, then it is all about two hands and making no mistakes.   Most importantly, just find your comfort zone and have fun.....and always know that most who carried guns in the old west were not gunfighters and the handgun was a needed tool.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

18 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Steve McQueen (Vin) uses two hands in the original “Magnificent Seven.”  So does James Coburn (Britt) when he makes his long “worst shot.”

...and Britt still missed, even with two hands.  

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

Those of us former Marine Cryptologic Analysts and NRA bullseye competitors shoot one handed that'show we were trained and the NRA rules require it. I shoot one handed because I have a revolver in each hand while shooting as a Gunfighter. :-)

 

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

The 1911 was my TO weapon. We were taught to shoot one handed.

Trivia, as a boy horseman, we carried our revolver in a cross draw holster.

You use the method you were taught

:-)

 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

The cartridge in the old west was a powerful .45 with a 250-ish grain bullet.  But they were generally NOT shooting 60 of them in one day, actually sixty in just a few minutes of shooting.

[Quiet Burp]

[Sixgun Seamus]

9 hours ago, Equanimous Phil said:

You can add "The Professionals" and "Hang 'em High" to the list. 

Mattie Ross shot two handed in True Grit.

[Hendo]

1 hour ago, Quiet Burp said:

Alec Baldwin?

[DeaconKC]

20 hours ago, Hendo said:

So when they "fan" they're six shooters in the movies, is that considered shooting two handed? 

Only if they come through the door fanning a six gun in each hand!

[Hendo]

26 minutes ago, DeaconKC said:

Only if they come through the door fanning a six gun in each hand!

I wasn't aware we had a spaghetti western category. 

[Constable Nelson #11784]

On 1/16/2022 at 3:52 PM, Quiet Burp said:

 

Doesn't matter to me either, I just asked the question out of interest how did two handed cowboy shooting with a sixgun come about.

 

The general public are surprised when they see people dressed in cowboy garb shooting sixguns using two hands. Heck, I did a simple search on the Wire and there's a ton of threads where us CAS cowpokes have started threads that they were surprised!

 

I can't answer for anyone else, but when I was shooting my Roy Rogers cap gun as a kid, I sure wasn't (nor any of the other boys) shootin' two handed style so you can see how it does bewilder folks a touch when they see dressed up cowboys shooting 'tacticool' style.

 

 

Been shooting CAS in Australia for a long time and I can't say I recall that being the reaction from "the general public".  At "Open Days" where we let folks have a shot we always got them to use a 2 hand hold for obvious reasons.  Don't recall comments even then.    A little more likely a question to come from those deciding to get involved in the sport I guess...but still not something I recall hearing often enough to notice or remember TBH...    YMMV.   Hardly matters as Duellists aren't competing against folks using a 2 hand hold anyway... You folks  call it "Western Action" where you're at?  Haven't heard that much for a while.. That takes me back!  Must have got this in the 90's before the general name change to Single Action... damn that seems a long time ago...

[Constable Nelson #11784]

THIS must be why I went to 2 handed shooting!  I did it as a kid! 

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

I like to often change category's, shoot BP or smokeless, sometimes 2 handed or duelist, using different guns is part of the fun,.honestly if it was only a one handed game based on the 'ole cowboy theme ..I would not be shooting single action !!!!

Duelist  IMHO is considered more deliberate but for myself 2 handed is more fun...in saying that C& B is a hoot 

[San Joaquin Shootist]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/c6ytFV5.jpg[/img]

[San Joaquin Shootist]

https://davecampbelloutdoors.com/the-weaver-stance/

[San Joaquin Shootist]

[Grass Range]

On 1/15/2022 at 4:25 PM, Quiet Burp said:

 

It was just a question.

 

We dress up the part of looking like a cowboy to emulate our Western hero's like The Duke, Clint Eastward and all the other Western greats we saw on the silver screen and NONE of them used two hands. 

 

To me it seems an anomaly. Do you honestly think its that much of a mystery to wonder about using two hands to shoot a six gun? Every non shooting visitor and other discipline shooting visitor I've ever talked to who viewed a Western Action match have all commented "You use two hands to shoot a cowboy gun"?

Right on

[Keystone, SASS # 47578]

Well, I don't have a problem with two-handed shooting of a pistol(s) in CAS/SASS. Just never understood the use of the term "Traditional" when referring to this particular style. Duelist shooting style seems more inline as a traditional way of shooting pistols. Two-handed is more a modern or contemporary style.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Traditional originally had more to do with the type of gun then in how it was fired.   Traditional referred to a gun with fixed sights, like a Single Action Army

Modern referred to a gun with adjustable sights like a Ruger Blackhawk.   It also referred to vintage guns with adjustable sights.

[Hendo]

1 hour ago, Keystone, SASS # 47578 said:

Well, I don't have a problem with two-handed shooting of a pistol(s) in CAS/SASS. Just never understood the use of the term "Traditional" when referring to this particular style. Duelist shooting style seems more inline as a traditional way of shooting pistols. Two-handed is more a modern or contemporary style.

 

On 1/15/2022 at 3:49 PM, McCandless said:

 

You have to remember the roots of Cowboy Action Shooting.  It started in the late 70's with a group of action pistol shooters (early IPSC) who decided to give it a go with Western-looking firearms.  Whatever they could dig up.  They just continued the way they had been but with different firearms.  They shot the way they had been traditionally shooting... (therefore the "Traditional" designation).  Once a core of them formed the Single Action Shooting Society in the 80s, they began to slowly designate different categories.  Those shooting the fixed sight guns with two hands formed the Traditional Category.  Those using adjustable sight revolver were placed in the "Modern Category".   There was a "Black Powder Category", and soon those who wished to shoot one-handed got the "Duelist" category.  

 

 

[Not Dead Ed]

On 1/15/2022 at 5:17 PM, Quiet Burp said:

Why do so many people shoot Western Action using two hands? I've seen as many western movies as anyone else and can't remember any cowboys ever using two hands to aim and fire their pistol, have seen women in movies using two hands.

How did the two handed grip come about to be so prevalent? Has it been from the get go or did it creep in and slowly become the norm for most?

I went and asked Santee from the Arizona Ghostriders how’d they shoot in the old west. 
Here’s his reply. 
“Most revolvers during the Civil War were considered point-and-shoot, so that tells me one-handed (reins were held in the other hand). Photos where men are messing around pointing guns at one another show one handed, and the movie "Great Train Robbery" also indicates one-handed. Yes, that movie was 1903, but they got info and some staging from Buffalo Bill's show.
Bill Tilghman made a movie about his days as a lawman, and used some real outlaws from the period. Yes, one-handed shooting.
Did two-handed exist? I'm sure it did.

Also, there is this photo here from the same time period in AZ of a gunfight. It’s not a great photo…but he’s holding the gun in one hand. 
Drawings/paintings also show this one-handed style as well as dueling early in the period (was one-handed).“

[Rip Snorter]

And yet, Bullseye, very accurate, one hand only, and not exactly slow.  Timed, 2 sets of 5 rounds each in 20 seconds.  Rapid, 2 sets of 5 rounds in 10 seconds.    Good shooters kept them all in the black. 

[Sagebrush Burns, SASS # 14226]

Just read Elmer Keith and Jeff Cooper.

[Mister Badly]

https://youtu.be/BHOmH8PuDYM

 

I shoot with two hands all the time

 

["Big Boston"]

With all due respect, Mattie was shooting a Colt Walker, and IMHO that is a two handed gun. 

 

Many years ago my hunting partner told me this story. He was out hunting grouse and had just harvested a nice bird, killed by aiming a bit high as it stood up to see what was coming down the trail. By aiming high most of the pattern missed the body of the bird but enough pellets hit the head to complete the harvest. This old timer, also out after grouse, walked up and asked, "Why didn't you let him flush and wing shoot him". To which my friend replied, "I'm not very good at wing shooting". The old time was silent for a moment and quietly spoke, "I suppose you won't get any better at wing shooting if you keep shooting them on the ground", and then he walked away. 

 

Those words stuck with my friend, very seldom did he ground shoot a grouse, and he was a good wing shot. 

 

I view shooting duelist as a skill, and it requires practice. I even added double duelist to my repertoire, and shooting left handed has never been my thing.  It does take a different skill set to shoot duelist, and my times definitely slowed when I switched, but damn, if I shoot clean on a stage with a decent time, I feel good about myself. I see nothing wrong with learning a new skill. 

 

That being said, I do have a mental block about shooting black powder. And I do admire those that have perfected that skill, and their love of cleaning guns and cartridge cases, and their tolerance for that awful smell.. 

 

BB 

[Mezcal Charlie]

On 1/15/2022 at 6:25 PM, Quiet Burp said:

 

It was just a question.

 

We dress up the part of looking like a cowboy to emulate our Western hero's like The Duke, Clint Eastward and all the other Western greats we saw on the silver screen and NONE of them used two hands. 

 

To me it seems an anomaly. Do you honestly think its that much of a mystery to wonder about using two hands to shoot a six gun? Every non shooting visitor and other discipline shooting visitor I've ever talked to who viewed a Western Action match have all commented "You use two hands to shoot a cowboy gun"?

I agree with you and I have chosen duelist/gunfighter because a) I want to emulate the true west and b) I won’t be competing for the fastest ever. Best I can hope for is clean shoots where I hit all targets in the right order. 

[Mezcal Charlie]

I believe that Wild Bill made his famous shot in the heart at 75 paces by resting his 1851 Colt on his off hands forearm.

[Rip Snorter]

I did that as a Teen, having seen the pictures and just got my hands on a single action.  Nice burns on the inside of my forearm.  Of course, Hickock was a sharp dresser and I don't believe anyone wore short sleeves back then.