Philosopher Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Recently acquired a new Ruger Wrangler with a birdshead grip. Hoping the Wrangler lets me conserve my centerfire ammo supply! Unfortunately, I missed a small problem when I inspected the gun at the shop. If the barrel is pointed down and hammer will not come to a full cock. Point the Wrangler up in the air and the hammer comes to a full cock without issue. It appears the problem is that the plunger in the end of the cylinder pin does not adequately contact the transfer bar, so when the Wrangler is pointed down the weight of the transfer bar causes it to fall forward and jam on the lower edge of the firing pin. I double-checked that the cylinder pin IS fully seated and the cross latch engaged. If I push backward on the cylinder pin the gun operates correctly in all positions, without applying pressure on the cylinder pin the transfer bar jams. Seems this problem has been experienced by others here on the forum. Oops. Now to my question: is the problem that the cylinder pin and its plunger are too short? I measured the OAL of the cylinder pin and it's 2.837" - I did not compress the plunder at the end of the cylinder pin for this measurement. I'd LOVE to have Ruger ship me just a new cylinder pin and not have to return my nearly new revolver. Anyone want to help a pard out and measure the OAL of the cylinder pin on an unmodified Wrangler the actually works? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 On several I examined the base pin to latch fit is incorrect. You push the basepin in the gun works OK. You pull it out the gun malfunctions. In a lot of cases the problem is not the base pin itself. It is the base pin latch is not fully engaging the base pin groove. I will try to show a likely cause. In the top photo you can see the base pin latch sticking into the basepin hole. What happens is the latch is not reaching the centerline of the basepin. Once the latch reaches the centerline or goes slightly past you have the full diameter of the latch engaging the groove in the basepin. Photo 2 shows the latch and its relationship to the base pin groove. Notice the centerline marked with the red arrow. On some Wranglers the latch is more like that shown in Photo 3. The latch is to the left of the centerline and is not fully engaging the base pin and this allows the base pin to have excessive fore and aft movement. I have exagerated the bottom two photos and put in the arrows to help visualize the problem. We are only talking a few thousands of an inch. Unless you know what you are doing and know how to measure and correct the latch engagement I would send it back to Ruger. You can also try and call Ruger. This seems to be a fairly common problem and maybe they are making basepins with longer plungers as a less expensive fix than sending the whole gun back. Could also be something else. Again it depends on your ability to take precise measurements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 Mr. Pettifogger, thank you very much for your detailed and insightful response! I believe your analysis is very likely to be correct. The odds that the latch is misadjusted seems more likely than a flaw in the revolver frame, transfer bar, or cylinder pin. I have a calipers and micrometer available, as well as a plethora of gunsmithing tools, and my diploma from the Wile E. Coyote School of Gunsmithing! What dimensions should I measure? The side-to-side dimension of the latch? Thanks for your assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Great info and pictures Larsen, thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 I just measured one of mine and it appears to be 2.84. I'll dig out another one and check it too......yep, also 2.84. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Is this a problem on all Wranglers or just the birds head grip newer guns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StirrupTrouble Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 2 hours ago, Dantankerous said: Is this a problem on all Wranglers or just the birds head grip newer guns? I don't have a Wrangler. But I have seen it on the regular Wranglers. I helped a pard with his a while back showing him how to resolve, and he sent it back for repair. No issues since he got it back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Louis Suomi SASS #31905 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 I had the same problem with mu single=six. sent it back to ruger - they fixed it right pronto and returned it. NO problem since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 4 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said: I just measured one of mine and it appears to be 2.84. I'll dig out another one and check it too......yep, also 2.84. What are you measuring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said: What are you measuring? The length of the cylinder pin uncompressed. That's what the OP asked for in his original post...I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Reb Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 I had the same problem with both my Wranglers. I used a 13/64 drill bit to deepen the right side of the base pin latch hole just a little bit so that the latch pin centers in the base pin hole as LEP explained in his post. That resolved the problem TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 Made a U-shaped screwdriver bit and was able to firmly engage the cylinder latch nut. Tightened the latch screw a little at a time and tested the revolver function. No improvement was seen even though I ultimately had tightened the latch screw/nut by 2 full turns. Ruger customer service quickly offered up a return shipping label so back it goes. Thanks to all who offered up suggestions, but if I try anything further I'll be beyond my pay grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger #3720LR Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 The over all measurement can be different gun to gun. The measurement that needs to be address is the pin to notch. What is past the notch doesnt effect the cross bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 When you tighten the latch you are moving the red arrow. This does not change latch engagement. Ruger puts thread locker on the shaft so once tightened and the thread locker engages it won't come loose and does not need to be screwed fully in. In order to fix the problem the moveable end of the latch needs to move the direction of the blue arrow. I was reluctant to address how to fix the problem as I did not want anyone ruining their frame. But, as noted by Tommy Reb, the solution is to deepen the hole the moveable end moves into. I was worried someone might just chuck a bit in a drill motor and ruin their frame. I spend 15 or 20 minutes setting the frame in a milling machine and making sure all the verticle surfaces are vertical and the horizontal surfaces are horizontal and the frame hole is centered. Then about 5 seconds with an end mill deeping the hole just a FEW thousands of an inch until the end of the moveable section of the latch is just past the centerline of the base pin. Sending it back to Ruger ensures that the frame hole will be bored correctly. Oh, in case anyone is curious that is NOT red loctite. It is a rubbery thread locker in case the latch needs to be disassembled for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted January 15, 2022 Author Share Posted January 15, 2022 Thank you for the explanation. Apply a drill to the frame? Not me! Ruger can fix this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 Larsen, will my rotary tool work well for this? I have duct tape for a backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted February 2, 2022 Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 Just received my Wrangler back from Ruger. Nice quick turn-around on the fix, everything seems to operate as it should. I'm very pleased with Ruger's customer service. According to the paperwork returned with the revolver the fix was to replace the cylinder base pin. I measured the new base pin (without compressing the plunger at the tip) and it comes in exactly at 2.850" inches, so longer than the original base pin by .013". Not much of a difference in overall length but it's enough to make the Wrangler cock in any position without jamming the transfer bar into the firing pin. Thanks to all who helped. NOW to find some spiffier grips! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickcva41 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 I was having the same issue with my Wrangler. Called Ruger and they asked me to try the cylinder pin from my Single Six. When I did the Wrangler functioned perfectly. Ruger is sending me a replacement cylinder pin for my Wrangler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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